13
   

Hillary's email scandal will never go away

 
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 07:59 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Gosh. Why read the document from the State Department about handling classified documents (which I posted a link to earlier) when you can read the one from the military. After all Hillary was nothing but a buck private, wasn't she?

It is as black and white as the text in the State Department document.

Here. Let me give you the link again...
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/88405.pdf
It even cites the specific laws that govern classified information. You know, the laws that require knowingly and with intent pass documents to someone else before it rises to a criminal offense.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 01:39 pm
I don' like Hilary a tid bit but Hilary's sin is no bigger nor smaller then the average American candidate when it comes to dealing with XXI century tech...they all dinosaurs.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 01:49 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
After all Hillary was nothing but a buck private, wasn't she?


I shouldn't laugh

but that's priceless Smile
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 02:50 pm
@roger,
Yep, it's going to be an issue all the way till the end of silly season.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 02:51 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

Yep, it's going to be an issue all the way till the end of silly season.

When is silly season over?
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 02:56 pm
@Thomas,
I don't care about the classified part personally but do care that she did this to evade FOIA. I don't think it should be an election issue but do want there to be punishment for government employees who try to circumvent FOIA this way and do not want this tolerated. But yeah, the ongoing talk about it is just a manufactured scandal.

The only people I know who really care and are angry about this are folks who have had to follow rules about information classification and see it as an example of the people at the top not having to follow rules that they'd get fired for.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 03:07 pm
@snood,
I expect this issue to last this election cycle, just like swiftboating and the other manufactured election scandals.

Sure, there may be silliness that continues beyond and certainly some people will never let go of this but I think this is largely manufactured for the elections and that nobody would still be talking about this if Hillary weren't running.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 03:14 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
It's irrational to me, really.

I'll vote for either Bernie or Hillary (they'll both be basically the same president as far as actual governance goes; not necessarily their ideals), I just feel that Hillary has a better shot at winning the general election.


Makes sense. I feel the same way. I would prefer Bernie to Hillary (she's far too hawkish for my tastes) but prefer both of them to the alternatives.

There is a lot of irrational passion for all candidates and watching progressives attacking each other over their preferred candidates seems so silly. It's sad how polarizing elections can be.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 09:57 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
There is a lot of irrational passion for all candidates and watching progressives attacking each other over their preferred candidates seems so silly. It's sad how polarizing elections can be.


Although it's probably not people at their best behavior, I don't mind the promotion of one Dem candidate over another, or the arguing about who's the best choice. What I just can't wrap my head around is the fact that supporters of one of the Dem candidates would rather Trump, Cruz or Rubio win than the Dem candidate they don't like. It seems crazy spiteful, and just crazy.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 11:15 pm
@snood,
The silly season has become a silly couple of decades.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 12:09 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

...watching progressives attacking each other over their preferred candidates seems so silly. It's sad how polarizing elections can be.


Well, I find it very entertaining and not just because I enjoy seeing dissension in the ranks of the enemy.

In such discussions you will see and hear things being said about a progressive candidate (HRC most obviously) by progressives who only a short time earlier would have been seen or heard vigorously defending her against the same charges

I'm not necessarily saying the attacking aspects of these debates are of any real value (other than , again, my entertainment) but there is absolutely no reason why progressives should refrain from criticizing one or more of the candidates running in the Democrat primary.

It's a dilemma of course if you are of the mind that the worst of the Democrat candidates is better than the best of the Republican ones or visa versa.

There are always voices during the primaries bemoaning the internecine battles that go on. I agree when it comes to nasty attacks that involve misinformation or outright lies, but it makes perfect sense for Rand Paul to criticize the polices promoted by the other candidates and for Marco Rubio to speak of and criticize accordingly the voting record of his fellow candidate who are currently Senators. They are competing for a very important position after all and a large part of the competition involves drawing clear distinctions between themselves and their opponents. And it's not as if Sanders is going to provide the Republicans with a line of criticism that they would never come up with on their own,. If Rubio wins the nomination and the Dem candidate accuses him of flip flopping on immigration, it won't be because Cruz disloyally spilled the beans.

Even if you are inclined to discount or dismiss the conservative critics of HRC in this forum, the debates that have occurred among progressives over several separate threads indicate there is quite a lot to criticize HRC for, and quite a lot of common ground among the areas of progressive and conservative criticism.

What disturbs and disappoints me is how someone who can clearly see a candidate's serious faults during a primary race, is able to shrug them off when the general election rolls around.

I have made no secret of my dislike and distaste for both Trump and HRC. I will never cast a vote for Clinton, and the chance that I cast one for Trump barely exists as it depends on him undergoing a transformation that is, at this time, inconceivable. So if they end up as the two main candidates I will be voting for whomever the Libertarian candidate is, and that only because I feel compelled to exercise my right to vote. I am not going to say about Trump, "Well, at least he's nominally a Republican and that makes him better than anything the Democrats can put up." I will also not consider a vote for the Libertarian a vote for Clinton.

The Sanders Supporter's rationalization come the general election will be "Well there really isn't that big a difference between Hillary and Bernie. I won't really be, at best, contradicting myself if I vote for her and at worse, abandoning my principles."

If this is the case then why support Sanders at all? Despite the blather of people assigned to the Damage Control Unit, a close race between HRC and Sanders will not make her a better General Election Candidate. If it is prolonged and tensions grow (as I expect they will) she will be a weaker GE candidate in the fall. You may prefer Sanders over Clinton, but if there really isn't a significant difference between the two and both will essentially follow the same progressive agenda why not help the one that has the best chance of winning the White House by supporting her rather than weakening her through the enabling of opposition from someone who is in essence the same progressive candidate?
woiyo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 07:17 am
@parados,
She apparently gave them or told them to send it to her personal account. She IS responsible. She will NEVER admit it. Neither will you.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 07:57 am
@woiyo,
ROFLMAO...

You didn't bother to check facts, did you? With respect to the email chain where Hillary says to send the TP by email, the State Department says the TP ended up being securely faxed. It's a dead end. Nothing was sent by email as a result of that exchange.
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 11:19 am
@snood,
snood wrote:
Although it's probably not people at their best behavior, I don't mind the promotion of one Dem candidate over another, or the arguing about who's the best choice. What I just can't wrap my head around is the fact that supporters of one of the Dem candidates would rather Trump, Cruz or Rubio win than the Dem candidate they don't like. It seems crazy spiteful, and just crazy.


Yeah, it's this level of polarization that I find irrational. I get not voting for Hillary if she wins the nomination and you do not support her, but wanting the other side to win out of spite means the you've taken the silly season's attacks too far.
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 11:37 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
The Sanders Supporter's rationalization come the general election will be "Well there really isn't that big a difference between Hillary and Bernie. I won't really be, at best, contradicting myself if I vote for her and at worse, abandoning my principles."

If this is the case then why support Sanders at all?


All candidates are flawed, if one sees Sanders as less flawed than Hillary then it makes sense to support Sanders as long as he has a legitimate chance.

Quote:
Despite the blather of people assigned to the Damage Control Unit, a close race between HRC and Sanders will not make her a better General Election Candidate.


Sure, but just going with whoever's the most popular at the beginning isn't gonna produce the best candidate either. Somewhere in the middle is the best strategy.

Quote:
If it is prolonged and tensions grow (as I expect they will) she will be a weaker GE candidate in the fall. You may prefer Sanders over Clinton, but if there really isn't a significant difference between the two and both will essentially follow the same progressive agenda why not help the one that has the best chance of winning the White House by supporting her rather than weakening her through the enabling of opposition from someone who is in essence the same progressive candidate?


I personally am not going to bother supporting either if you mean by voting. I haven't ever voted before and probably never will (it's a waste of my time and I can have a greater effect on political outcomes by debating them than by voting).
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 12:03 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I often feel that way too! It seems a waste of time to vote when the general voting population doesn't seem to grasp what they're voting for. Look how popular Trump is!
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  4  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 06:04 pm
I find it so very interesting to have read today that Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell also had used private email accounts when they were Secretary of State, and yes, they too had classified emails coming to their personal accounts. However, where were the Congressional hearings on the two of them? Where? Nowhere, that's the answer. Ridiculous double standards everywhere.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 06:29 pm
@Robert Gentel,
You say you "get" a Democrat not voting for Hillary if she gets the nomination? Well, I don't. If they don't vote for the Democratic nominee, they give aid to the Republicans.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 06:45 pm
@parados,
How about this?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/08/13/hillary-email-claims-facts-column/31654799/
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Feb, 2016 06:46 pm
I wonder if Independents who won't vote for Hillary Clinton are as vilified as Democrats who won't vote for Hillary Clinton.

There are a LOT of people who won't vote for Hillary Clinton.

I feel em.

If you put a gun to my head and told me to vote for her, my last words would be "**** you."
 

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