Laura Bush vs. Science

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
Stem cell research has not been reduced under Bush, it continues.

This is categorically wrong.

And you are completely in error. Please try to stick with the facts, OK?

All the stem cell lines currently active can still be employed in federal research, hence there is no reduction in stem cell research.

0 Replies

Bush Press Release on Stem Cell Research

Have a read. I can't believe that a document like that was issued through the White House...

0 Replies

Thanks for that, Jer. Interesting how often he evokes religious themes in defending his position. Guess it comes as no suprise...

0 Replies

D'artagnan wrote:

Thanks for that, Jer. Interesting how often he evokes religious themes in defending his position. Guess it comes as no suprise...

Like Kerry?

0 Replies

Ah, the "Nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah" school of rhetorical exchange . . .

0 Replies

Setanta wrote:

Ah, the "Nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah-nyeah" school of rhetorical exchange . . .

LOL, nothing on topic to say?

0 Replies

Bush on Stem Cells wrote:

And to the other crucial question, if these [embryos] are going to be destroyed anyway, why not use them for good purpose -- I also found different answers.

Many argue these embryos are byproducts of a process that helps create life, and we should allow couples to donate them to science so they can be used for good purpose instead of wasting their potential.

Others will argue there's no such thing as excess life, and the fact that a living being is going to die does not justify experimenting on it or exploiting it as a natural resource.

0 Replies

My big issue with the Bush policy on stem cell research is that he's using 'federal funds' (read YOUR money) to fund only private research.

And his reasoning for doing this is based on his religion...

Bush on Stem Cells wrote:

As a result of private research, more than 60 genetically diverse stem cell lines already exist. They were created from embryos that have already been destroyed, and they have the ability to regenerate themselves indefinitely, creating ongoing opportunities for research. I have concluded that we should allow federal funds to be used for research on these existing stem cell lines, where the life and death decision has already been made.

Leading scientists tell me research on these 60 lines has great promise that could lead to breakthrough therapies and cures. This allows us to explore the promise and potential of stem cell research without crossing a fundamental moral line, by providing taxpayer funding that would sanction or encourage further destruction of human embryos that have at least the potential for life.

I also believe that great scientific progress can be made through aggressive federal funding of research on umbilical cord placenta, adult and animal stem cells which do not involve the same moral dilemma. This year, your government will spend $250 million on this important research.

0 Replies

Geez, Karzak, do some research before you post!!!!

Karzak Wrote:

Quote:

And you are completely in error. Please try to stick with the facts, OK?

All the stem cell lines currently active can still be employed in federal research, hence there is no reduction in stem cell research.

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/res_stem9.htm
[quote]A number of scientists who were interviewed expressed confusion over Bush's statement that there are 60 existing stem cell lines. They believed that there are perhaps only about a dozen lines. Some are owned by private labs and are unlikely to make them available to government research programs. "Even specialists in the field had been unaware there were more than 10 or 15 lines." 3 "The National Institutes of Health has yet to produce information about the lines or their producers, feeding speculation that many of those 60 do not exist, are of poor quality or are under such tight commercial control as to make them unattractive to researchers hoping to study and perhaps profit from them."

The Washington Post and other news organizations have compiled their own lists of stem cell lines. None have come up with more than 23. However, on 2001-AUG-27, the National Institutes of Health stated that they had found 64 cell lines from "genetically diverse" embryos. However, according to USA Today, "As many as 30 cell lines don't show all of the chemical and biological characteristics needed for the widest possible use." 4 They are located in laboratories around the world: 24 lines in two Swedish labs, 20 lines in four U.S. labs, 10 lines in two Indian labs, 6 lines in one Australian lab, and 4 lines in one Israeli lab. All lines were derived from embryos that meet President Bush's criteria.

Researchers have many other concerns:

The available cells may not contain sufficient genetic diversity to allow meaningful research and treatment. In order to avoid organ rejection, doctors try to match the DNA of the donor and recipient. This requires that many stem cell lines be available.
The limited racial diversity of the available cells could affect the availability of future therapies for certain racial minorities. Many of the existing stem cell lines come from Oriental people. "Kevin Wilson, director of public policy at the American Society for Cell Biology, said many researchers believe 'there is a question about the quality of the [64] cell lines and if they are of sufficient genetic diversity for scientists to do the work that needs to be done.' "
Cell lines are "highly finicky...Cell lines can 'crash' -- or die -- at any moment." "NBC's Robert Bazell has reported that existing stem-cell colonies were believed to have a 'shelf life' of only about two years. But Leon Kass, a University of Chicago bioethicist heading a Bush-appointed panel monitoring stem-cell research, said the existing lines should last at least a decade." 5
Some stem cells that successfully grow in one laboratory, cannot be grown in another.
Stem cells are "quite volatile...They can spontaneously turn into specialized cells, thus rendering them useless for later work."
The NIH has not released full information on the condition of the 60 cell lines.
According to the Washington Post, most, perhaps all, of the existing embryonic stem cell lines have been mixed with mouse cells. "The cell colonies, or 'lines,' were created for early-stage research with no thought that they would become the only embryonic cells eligible for federal money. The standard technique for creating human embryonic stem cell lines has been to extract cells from inside a microscopic embryo, then grow them atop embryonic mouse cells, known as "feeder" cells. The latter excrete some unknown nutritional or growth factor that helps the human cells stay healthy. Because they have been in close contact with mouse cells, the human cells pose a small but real risk of transferring potentially deadly animal viruses to people." Because of Food and Drug Administration guidelines, it would be difficult or impossible to use the cells in human clinical tests. The total number of stem cell lines usable in human clinical trials may well be note 60 as the president indicated, but zero! The available sources of stem cells are not of proven usefulness. Referring to the stem cells at Goteborg University in Sweden, a Washington Post writer said: "At least one-third of the 64 embryonic stem cell colonies approved for funding under a new Bush administration policy are so young and fragile it remains unclear whether they will ever prove useful to scientists." Goteborg neurobiologist Peter ErikssonI said: "I was a little surprised to see the NIH calling them 19 lines. Maybe they misinterpreted a little bit." Firuza Parikh, founder and director of Reliance Life Sciences in India, said that four of the seven cell lines included in the NIH list have barely cleared the first hurdles in the long process of proving their identity and usefulness as stem cells. The three remaining lines are even younger and could easily "peter out." 6

It seemed obvious that the President's policy was only a stop-gap measure. Sooner or later, the existing stem cell lines will be exhausted, and government research will have to grind to a stop, unless the extraction of new stem cells are allowed. Paul Elias of the Associated Press interviewed stem cell researchers one year after the President's decision. He reported that researchers complained: "An overwhelming majority of the stem cells the Bush administrated approved are in poor condition and useless for research." 7 In the meantime, some restricted research can proceed. But if new cures or treatments are developed, they may not be useable by some racial minorities.

"To limit researchers to 60 cell lines, critics say, is like telling mathematicians they can pursue their studies but they can never use numbers bigger than 10. 'I think it's a ridiculous policy,' said George Daley, a leading stem cell researcher at the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Cambridge," MA. Evan Snyder, another stem cell expert at the Harvard Medical School, called Bush's approach 'scientifically naive.' " [/quote]

The Bush policy on stem cell research is confusing and illogical. It needs to be remedied asap.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

You still have not shown any reduction in stem cell research. Can you address this point or not?

0 Replies

Poor reading skills, Cyclo . . . please don't feed the troll . . .

0 Replies

As we get closer to the election, more of them seem to be showing up.

0 Replies

Sorry Set, I get carried away on that topic.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Again, show where Bush has reduced the stem cell research. All I see is whining by some researchers about not being able to increase the research on the taxpayers bill.

0 Replies

By arbitrarily deciding upon a tiny number of cell strains that can be funded by taxpayer money, Bush has reduced our ability to pursue many, many roads of research re: stem cell funding. Before he passed his restrictions, that research (while brand new) was not limited. Therefore, the right of the taxpayer to see that his money gets spent on quality scientific research has been reduced by Bush.

Simple enough for ya, troll?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

By arbitrarily deciding upon a tiny number of cell strains that can be funded by taxpayer money, Bush has reduced our ability to pursue many, many roads of research re: stem cell funding. Before he passed his restrictions, that research (while brand new) was not limited. Therefore, the right of the taxpayer to see that his money gets spent on quality scientific research has been reduced by Bush.

Simple enough for ya, troll?

Cycloptichorn

LOL, I like the way you lable people who don't agree with you a "troll", no doubt you think the motherland needs some cleansing.

You are wrong in your assertion, existing research can continue, it has not been reduced. New frankenstinian manipulation of humans to get new stem cells using public money is all that has been curtailed. Private research is uneffected.

0 Replies

Quote:

New frankenstinian manipulation of humans to get new stem cells using public money is all that has been curtailed.

Like many people, when you don't understand the science, you react with fear.

Quote:

no doubt you think the motherland needs some cleansing.

Hey, that's your people's word, not mine. When I hear 'motherland' or 'homeland' used, I always think of Nazi Germany.

Quote:

LOL, I like the way you lable people who don't agree with you a "troll"

Oh, plenty of people disagree with me. But it takes a special kind of jerk to get labelled a troll.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Like many people, when you don't understand the science, you react with fear.

LOL, more lables, how very progressive you are Rolling Eyes

Disgust at people who trade in human lives for money doesn't equal fear, but I'm sure that goes over your head.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Hey, that's your people's word, not mine. When I hear 'motherland' or 'homeland' used, I always think of Nazi Germany.

Nazi Germany, they were very left wing, like you.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Oh, plenty of people disagree with me. But it takes a special kind of jerk to get labelled a troll.

LOL, you think I'm special, you wanna kiss me....

When you can get back on topic feel free, if all you want to do is continue with assinine labels and misdirection, well, I'm sure you think it reflects highly on you Laughing

0 Replies

LOL. OK, let's get back to the topic: Again I ask, Karzak, what qualifies you to determine that enough research is being undertaken in this area. Because Laura Bush says so?

0 Replies

Karzak wrote:

Nazi Germany, they were very left wing, like you.

Does this need ANY reaction? Rolling Eyes

I get the feeling I'm starting to sympathise with Cycloptichorn's 'throll'.

0 Replies

Laura Bush vs. Science

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know