17
   

DNA, Where did the code come from?

 
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:51 am
There is no apparent limit to human ignorance.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:53 am
@Setanta,
Even DNA, on it's own, don't do nuthin. It's just kinda an instruction booklet. It takes a shitload of other "actors" to first read, then follow, them instruction. I would ask how chemicals and living cells got that smart, but I don't need to.

I done explained it when I told on my pet rock, eh?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  3  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:57 am
@Setanta,
Quote:

There is no apparent limit to human ignorance.


Ya sure ya didn't mean to say "arrogance" instead of ignorance? At least ya proved that much. Many times.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 05:03 am
Some people think that the information transmitted by a written letter is in the paper. Or maybe the ink. Or maybe in the messenger who delivers the letter.

Fraid not. It don't boil down to some material thing or some agent of transmission.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 05:16 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
The compounds themselves are extremely basic. Glycerol is hydrogen and oxygen--lots of that on a planet with as much water as there is here. Add nitrogen, and you can get an amino acid. Those elements are abundant here.
I'll grant you all the amino acids you want. Nature provides everything needed for concrete and steel too but you don't get New York City out of that.

I'm pretty sure I've studied the science behind biology and natural selection as deeply as anyone here and the more I learn the more unlikely natural chemical affinities seems as an explanation for life.

Or if you look at it as an archeologist, there are countless structures and artifacts we've found that we have no idea who made them or why. But no one doubts they were made by intelligent beings. I'm just gobsmacked that we can see that in a 10000+ year old stone wall but not in biology.
layman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 05:20 am
Hmmm, says here:
Quote:

A delusion of grandeur is the fixed, false belief that one possesses superior qualities such as genius, fame, omnipotence, or wealth. It is most often a symptom of schizophrenia, but can also be a symptom found in psychotic or bipolar disorders, as well as dementia (such as Alzheimer’s).

Sometimes, in popular language, this disorder may be known as “megalomania,” but is more accurately referred to as narcissistic personality disorder if it is a core component of a person’s personality and identity. In such disorders, the person has a greatly out-of-proportion sense of their own worth and value in the world.


http://psychcentral.com/encyclopedia/2008/delusion-of-grandeur/

These shrinks could have theyselves a field day here at A2K, I figure. No need to go traipsing round lookin for "subjects" ever again. 24/7 access to casebook examples, and all, ya know?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 05:25 am
@layman,
Quote:
MUFON. I like the sounda that! But what is it, Leddy?
Mutual UFO Network. Just a bunch of flying saucer fans.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 05:27 am
"Science can't explain it, so goddidit."

ad ignorantiam, god 0f the gaps, blah blah blah.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 05:31 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Mutual UFO Network. Just a bunch of flying saucer fans.


Well, OK, then! Include me in. I love them things. But not the pervs on them. They got some probes that aint nuthin nice. I know. I've been abducted by aliens hundreds of times.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 05:35 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
I'm pretty sure I've studied the science behind biology and natural selection as deeply as anyone here and the more I learn the more unlikely natural chemical affinities seems as an explanation for life.


Ah-hahahahahahaha . . .

From what i see, you don't know jackshit. Scientific American published an article on the replication of amino acids and peptide chains, occurring naturally, in clay tubes of Montmorillonite and other smectite clays, as long ago as 1970. I guess they forgot to include that in your study guide.
layman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 06:25 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Leadfoot wrote:
I'm pretty sure I've studied the science behind biology and natural selection as deeply as anyone here and the more I learn the more unlikely natural chemical affinities seems as an explanation for life.


Ah-hahahahahahaha . . .

From what i see, you don't know jackshit. Scientific American published an article on the replication of amino acids and peptide chains, occurring naturally, in clay tubes of Montmorillonite and other smectite clays, as long ago as 1970. I guess they forgot to include that in your study guide.


For some, seeing an empty glass of milk on the fireplace mantel would sufficiently explain and prove the existence of Santa Claus, eh?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 07:09 am
They told me I don't know how to make a TV set. Well, guess what, eh? I found me a channel-changing knob in a dumpster. Now, just wait until I get my mitts on a rabbit-ear antenna, eh? I'll show them, sho nuff!
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 08:44 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
occurring naturally, in clay tubes of Montmorillonite and other smectite clays
Reminds me of that old song from the early 60s.

Quote:
With just a hundred pounds of clay
He made my life worth livin'
And I will thank Him every day
For every kiss you're givin'
And I'll thank Him every night
For the arms that are holdin' me tight
And He did it all with just a hundred pounds of clay
Yes he did, whoa-oh, yes He did
'From just a hundred pounds of clay,
He made my life worth live'n.'


I really dig that clay theory Set.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 08:53 am
@Leadfoot,
More evidence, less empty rhetoric. Show us your god.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 08:58 am
@Leadfoot,

Quote:
I really dig that clay theory Set.


This skeptic had a theory about clay too, eh?:

Quote:
As under cover of departing Day---Slunk hunger - stricken Ramazan away---Once more within the Potter's house alone I stood---surrounded by the Shapes of Clay.

“Said one among them - "Surely not in vain---My substance from the common Earth was ta'en---That he who subtly wrought me into Shape---Should stamp me back to shapeless Earth again?"

“Another said - "Why, never a peevish Boy---Would break the Cup from which he drank in Joy---Shall He that of His own free Fancy make---The Vessel, in an after-rage destroy?"

“None answer'd this; but after silence spake---Some Vessel of a more ungainly Make---"They sneer at me for leaning all awry---What! did the Hand then of the Potter shake?"

“Thus with the Dead as with the Living, What---And Why? so ready, but the Wherefore not---One on a sudden peevishly exclaim'd---"Which is the Potter, pray, and which the Pot?" (omar khayyam)

layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 09:01 am
@layman,
More from the same perv:

Quote:
“Myself when young did eagerly frequent----Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument---About it and about: but evermore---Came out by the same door as in I went.”

“Some for the Glories of This World; and some---Sigh for the Prophet's Paradise to come---Ah, take the Cash, and let the Credit go---Nor heed the music of a distant Drum!”

“Alike for those who for Today prepare---And those that after some Tomorrow stare----A Muezzin from the Tower of Darkness cries---"Fools! your Reward is neither Here nor There!"


He does have a point, eh? Gimme cash! On the barrelhead.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 09:03 am
@layman,
And now he's talkin real bidnizz, eh?:

Quote:
Waste not your Hour, nor in the vain pursuit---Of This and That endeavour and dispute---Better be merry with the fruitful Grape---Than sadden after none, or bitter, Fruit.”

“For "Is" and "Is - Not" though with Rule and Line---And "Up - and - down" by Logic I define----Of all that one should care to fathom---I Was never deep in anything but - Wine.”

“And much as Wine has play'd the Infidel---And robb'd me of my Robe of Honour, Well----I often wonder what the Vintners buy---One half so precious as the ware they sell.”

0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 09:13 am
The problem with the DNA argument is that the sway of the evidence is influenced by preconceived bias on both sides. Some see structure and pattern in nature and see nothing but intelligence, some see code and mathematics and marvel at the wonders of evolution, physics and natural selection.

Either way it is pretty awesome.

I don't think the process of life proves or disproves a God. The common misconception of some is that when we theists cannot explain a process, we assign it to a magic man in the sky (some may do), the god of the gaps theory. Rather, I think science is a way of understanding how God the scientist created the universe, how the God the mathematician Balanced physics, and how God the programmer coded life etc. None of this is proof that a god exists, but it is evidence that will lead some to believe in ID. It is however unlikely to meet the specified criteria that most atheists will ask for as proof of a deity. especially in light of alternative belief systems on the origin of life available.

There are many things that we haven't discovered about our DNA, we don't know what much of it does, there are conundrums and paradoxes you can google, but again, these are not proof in themselves of a god, ultimately given time, science will iron out most of these creases, some people/scientists etc will be convinced of the existence of a god through the process of examining life and DNA, most probably won't, but ultimately I imagine our preconceived bias will lead the appraisal of 99% of people on the subject.

All that said, I am neither scholar nor intellectual. so I accept that my entire worldview may well be wrong, I am always happy to consider correction Wink
layman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 09:27 am
@Smileyrius,
Good point, Smiley.

But all this talk about molecules and chemicals completely misses the point anyway. The OP noted:

Quote:
When it was understood that DNA contains coded information, thoughtful people asked, ‘How did the information get there?’


The question is about INFORMATION, not atomic particles.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 09:46 am
@layman,
Information can be generated randomly. Structured information can be generated through a process of natural selection.

Whether we are talking about information or atomic particles, the answer is the same.
 

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