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Kerry flatline, looks bad for the dems

 
 
angie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 07:30 pm
Redheat wrote: "The reality is that the undecided pool of voters is very small. "

IMO, this is the only salient point here. People have already made up their minds. Neither the conventions or the debates will change anyone's mind. Testament to the extreme and intense divisions Bush has managed to create among "fellow Americans", a people who were extraordinarily connected and united after 9/11, as was, in fact, most of the free world.

This will be his legacy. And rightly so. He has chosen to feed into our differences rather than our commonality as Americans, and as human beings.
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 07:49 am
Quote:
All true, but rather irrelevant by now, since the Newsweek poll has been followed by a bunch of other polls (CNN/Gallup, ARG, CBS, ABC/WaPo and the Rasmussen tracking one). And of all of them, only the ABC/WaPo poll showed more of a bounce than the Newsweek one had; CBS, ARG and Rasmussen all showed an even smaller bounce and in the CNN/Gallup one, Kerry actually lost ground against Bush compared to before the Convention. See this overview here.


Not sure what polls you are looking at. Like I said the "bounce" would have been very small given the pool of undecided voters is very small. There is little chance Bush will receive a bump either, there just aren't that many voters left out there to give the bounce it bump.

Besides Kerry DID in all the poll GAIN electoral votes which we all know are the only ones that count. As of today he is up by almost 100. So there was a bounce, it just wasnt the show stopping one the Republicans tried to make out would exist.

Quote:
Nah, see above. Out of six post-Convention polls (including Newsweek's), only the ABC/WaPo one had something like 5%. On average, we're talking 2% here. I was speculating here that perhaps Bush had a bounce of his own the two weeks or so before the Convention, which cancelled out any that the Convention itself might have yielded for the Dems.


Didn't I just say the bounce would be miminmal?


Polling Report

This has MOST polls and gives the dates. There are polls that show a bounce from July 30- Aug 4 which would be AFTER the convention. While they are only 2-5% points that fits into what I said they would be.

Not sure Nimh what your point was except to just sum up the points I had all ready made.
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 08:00 am
Well, one other salient point is that there is a big difference from telling a pollster what you think and going into the voting booth and actually "pulling the lever" to give this maniac four more years. Kerry did what he needed to do, he has established himself as a adequate alternative to Bush.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 01:09 pm
Redheat wrote:
Quote:
All true, but rather irrelevant by now, since the Newsweek poll has been followed by a bunch of other polls (CNN/Gallup, ARG, CBS, ABC/WaPo and the Rasmussen tracking one). And of all of them, only the ABC/WaPo poll showed more of a bounce than the Newsweek one had; CBS, ARG and Rasmussen all showed an even smaller bounce and in the CNN/Gallup one, Kerry actually lost ground against Bush compared to before the Convention. See this overview here.

Not sure what polls you are looking at.

Ehm ... the ones I mentioned? The ones I listed in the overview I just linked in? CNN/Gallup, ARG, CBS, ABC/WaPo and Rasmussen, in addition to the Newsweek one ... and you can add a Marist one now, too (bounce: 0 to -1%). All but Rasmussen are reported on pollingreport.com, so you should've seen them already.

Redheat wrote:
Like I said the "bounce" would have been very small given the pool of undecided voters is very small. There is little chance Bush will receive a bump either, there just aren't that many voters left out there to give the bounce it bump.

Agreed. Let's hope so, anyway.

Redheat wrote:
Besides Kerry DID in all the poll GAIN electoral votes which we all know are the only ones that count. As of today he is up by almost 100.

Hmm ... there are widely varying numbers out there on the EC score ... but "up by almost 100" seems like a lot by any score I've seen ... which site did you get that number from?

Redheat wrote:
So there was a bounce, it just wasnt the show stopping one the Republicans tried to make out would exist.

A bounce of 2% nationally aint much of a "bounce" by any standard ... negligeable.

Redheat wrote:
Not sure Nimh what your point was except to just sum up the points I had all ready made.

Sure, we agree on the main storyline, its just I'm anal about the details.

Ie, if you say there's been a bounce "of 2-5%", when out of all seven national post-Convention polls, only one had 5+%, and four had below 2%, that to me looks like an incorrect presentation of facts. And I'll note so, cause thats what I do.

Same with the quote you posted about the Newsweek poll. It went on and on about how you cant trust the Newsweek poll cause half of it was actually polled before Kerry's speech, so it was all wrong of the media to base any headlines on there being no bounce on it ... posted when you did so, that whole quote was irrelevant, cause there'd been a spate of polls since showing pretty much the same thing (or worse).

Those were my two points. <shrugs>
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 01:38 pm
Quote:
2%, that to me looks like an incorrect presentation of facts. And I'll note so, cause thats what I do.


Good for you but let's remember what the % was in the last election. Even 2% can make a difference.


Quote:
Same with the quote you posted about the Newsweek poll. It went on and on about how you cant trust the Newsweek poll cause half of it was actually polled before Kerry's speech, so it was all wrong of the media to base any headlines on there being no bounce on it ... posted when you did so, that whole quote was irrelevant, cause there'd been a spate of polls since showing pretty much the same thing (or worse).


No, nimh there wasn't as I presented in the most current polls AFTER the DNC which would be 7-31 to 8-4 which did show some "bounce" in the 3-5% range even though some were no higer then 2%. You ignore the facts that Kerry DID gain in electoral votes and now is ahead by almost 100 votes.


Quote:
Those were my two points. <shrugs>


No I think your point was to try and prove my post "irrelevant" and therefore it must fit into your preconcieved idea that all I do is spout rhetoric. I put forth a link to a polling site that gives you all the numbers over the course of months up to a year. In it you can see there was bump and again it would only be a small % since there is very few undecided voters. However once again even a small % makes a difference given the closenesss of the race.

Quote:
Following is a summary of the various polls:

ABC News/Washington Post

Registered voters: 50 percent for Kerry v. 44 percent for Bush (6 point Kerry bounce)

Likely voters: 49 percent for Kerry v. 47 percent for Bush (8 point Kerry bounce)

Newsweek

Registered voters: 49 percent for Kerry v. 42 percent for Bush (4 point Kerry bounce)

CBS News

Registered voters: 48 percent for Kerry v. 43 percent for Bush (2 point Kerry bounce)

USA Today/CNN/Gallup

Registered voters: 50 percent for Kerry v. 47 percent for Bush (1 point Bush bounce)

Likely voters: 47 percent for Kerry v. 50 percent for Bush (5 point Bush bounce)


Source

So Nimh the actual effect AFTER the DNC would be an average "bounce" period. Of course you can pick and choose which ever polls you need to try and portray it as not happening which was the point of the article I posted but the actual facts are that YES a bounce did occur although not one that was being touted as being relevant by the Republicans that of 12%. Which could not happen given the % of undecided voters.
0 Replies
 
 

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