7
   

Could It Be More Obvious?

 
 
Reply Fri 20 Nov, 2015 04:10 pm
We'll have to see what comes out of next week's meeting between Obama and Hollande, but if he doesn't meet the French PM's request he will have handed a huge victory to Putin.

Hollande went to Putin and by all accounts, got want he wanted.

A French police dog named Diesal was killed in the recent attack on the jihadis, and Russia has already sent over a puppy to replace her.

In addition Russia is releasing photos of their airmen painting "For Paris" on their bombs.

One of Putin's foremost desires is to break up NATO, and Obama may help him do just that.

Putin is also making an effort to appeal to the European Right. He was never a communist, simply an autocrat. If Islamic terrorism and Muslim imigrations leads to the rise of the Right in Europe, Putin is well positioned to be seen as a reliable ally.

I doubt our feckless president and his ass-kissing advisors even realize what is going on.
 
hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 20 Nov, 2015 11:45 pm
Hollande has been pretty useless, but at least he can sleep at night knowing that he has more sense than does the leader of the free world. http://www.democraticunderground.com/emoticons/puke.gif
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2015 12:18 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Hollande went to Putin and by all accounts, got want he wanted.
When did this happen that Hollande went to Moscow?
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2015 04:26 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Good question Walter. I was wondering this myself. Good luck getting a reasonable answer.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2015 04:46 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter - You're a smart fellow. You should understand that "went to" needn't be taken literally. But that wouldn't suit your smarmy comment would it?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 12:04 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
No. I didn't understand that - because the (French) papers had been full of the diplomatic visits he gets and will make just when you posted that.
(German vice-chancellor in the Elysées, Cameron on Monday, etc etc )
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 04:44 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
That is so typical of right wing Americans who don't understand Europe. We can see through Putin's insincerity, and pretty much everyone in Europe sees that Obama is a thousand times better than funny little monkey creature he replaced.

After the visceral hatred of France displayed during the illegal invasion of Iraq, with your freedom fries and cheese eating surrender monkeys, don't be surprised when we see through your insincerity too.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 04:45 pm
I think we know after the meeting with Putin on Thursday if Hollande is able to influence the fight. Obama is being a prick and is increasingly on his own with the sunni leaders in the demand that Assad needs to go, and Putin is putting on a military demonstration in Syria. I think this is all going to boil down to the Iranians unless Putin is willing to put in large numbers of ground troops, which he may just do if Hollande is willing to ditch Obama and go all in with Putin, which he may just do. The Chinese might also publicly smack down Obama on the Assad question, and pledge support to Putin, which would be a huge humiliation for Obama. Merkel is under tremendous pressure and she too is very likely decide that the USA has failed at leadership on this issue, and not object to France (Briton?) lining up behind Putin and the Chinese on this.

Quote:
The parties in Chancellor Angela Merkel's coalition government exchanged insults at the weekend in an escalating clash over refugee policy that has left the German leader looking more vulnerable than at any time during her decade in power.

Divisions between her conservatives and the centre-left Social Democrats (SPD) over benefits for refugees prompted coalition leaders to cancel a special cabinet meeting planned for Monday where they had hoped to agree measures to speed up the processing of asylum seekers.

But the biggest fight was within Merkel's own conservative ranks as members of her Christian Democratic Union (CDU) lined up to condemn their Bavarian sister party for humiliating the chancellor at a congress in Munich on Friday evening.

With Merkel standing next to him, Horst Seehofer, the leader of the Bavarian Christian Social Union (CSU), openly criticised her for refusing to put a formal cap on the number of refugees entering Germany. He was cheered loudly by members of his party as Merkel stood fidgeting uncomfortably on the stage

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/22/uk-europe-migrants-germany-idUKKBN0TB0M020151122

Merkel is learning that feel good stupidity does not work in the end.

This is going to be a very interesting week.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 05:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Putin is certainly exploiting the Paris attacks to rationalize his actions in Syria and create the illusion that he is in some sense an ally of the French and retaliating against their attackers.. However the fact is that his air strikes in Syria have mostly been directed against the moderate opposition to Assad in that country. Putin's real objectetive is the preservatiuon of Assad's rule. Meanwhile the Sunni Ialamic State forces in Syria are mostly a beneficiary of these airstrikes.

I doubt that the European leaders are fooled by the recent rhetoric.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 05:21 pm
@georgeob1,
Eggs-acktly . . . it's pathetic how many jokers at this site lap up the pro-Putin rhetoric.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 05:46 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Putin's real objectetive is the preservatiuon of Assad's rule


One of the lessor ones, before that is

1) driving a wedge though the Europe/America alliance

2) solidifying Russia's position on Team China

3) moving into the med east power vacuum created by America's exit from the region

4) driving political support at home

5) finding new markets for Russian goods



Keeping Assad in power and thus protecting his Syrian navy base I would put at #6. Some people would have it higher.

It does not matter, Russia/Iran/China all want Assad in power, and almost no one else who matters cares enough about him being gone to fight over the matter, except for Obama.

Assad probably stays.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 05:49 pm
Plus the news is that Putin/Russia (depends on the link) has sent the
French police) a new puppy after Diesel was killed in the recent siege.

http://pix11.com/2015/11/20/russia-sends-french-police-a-puppy-after-dog-diesel-was-killed-during-isis-raid/

Diesel's story hurts, but this may be a mix of care and opportunity..
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 06:25 pm
Anne Applebaum

Quote:
Even now, gazing back through the jaundiced lens of subsequent experience, Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign speech in Berlin still seems an extraordinary occasion. Tens of thousands of mostly young Germans gathered in the center of the city to listen to the American presidential candidate, in an atmosphere The Guardian described as “a pop festival, a summer gathering of peace, love—and loathing of George Bush.” Streets were closed for the occasion. Bands played to warm up the crowd.

When he spoke, Obama said just what the Germans, and so many other Europeans, wanted to hear. He reaffirmed the United States’ commitment to Europe, evoking the Berlin airlift and the fall of the Berlin Wall. He praised the virtues of “allies who will listen to each other, learn from each other and, most of all, trust each other.” He listed a series of global problems and declared that “no one nation, no matter how large or how powerful, can defeat such challenges alone.” That one phrase—again, according to The Guardian’s gushing account—prompted long and hearty cheers.

Germany was not alone in its rapture. Soon after he was elected president, Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize—simply, it seems, for the fact that he was not George W. Bush. With those kinds of absurd expectations surrounding his presidency, it was clearly impossible for Obama to avoid disappointing the Europeans. What is only surprising, in retrospect, is the speed with which he did so—and with which the Europeans disappointed him.
.
.
.
Instead, the many years of neglect of European defense—on the part of not only the Obama administration but also the Bush administration and the European political establishment—have taken their toll. Russian influence is now on the rise, and not only in the post-Soviet world. Russia supports, financially and otherwise, a wide range of anti-EU, anti-NATO far-right and far-left political parties in Europe, from France’s National Front and Austria’s Freedom Party to Hungary’s Jobbik and Greece’s Syriza. Sophisticated Russian disinformation now filters into mainstream media in many European countries. Russian efforts to undermine Ukraine continue; financial catastrophe, as well as more fighting, may follow. In the current atmosphere, Russia doesn’t need to invent Europe’s problems; it just needs to exacerbate them.

Right now, none of this is anybody’s priority: Europe is preoccupied with the Greek debt crisis, the coming British referendum on EU membership, and the wave of refugees crossing the Mediterranean in an effort to reach Europe. The United States has a major stake in all these crises. In particular, Greece’s travails are helping destabilize the Balkans. Russia is working hard to spread its influence there, most notably in Serbia, where Russian companies have invested heavily in the energy industry.

Yet the American role in the Greek drama has been mostly limited to friendly advice—the United States pushed for Europe to bail out Greece—which has generally been ignored, if even heard at all. In any case, the United States was always going to have limited influence over the far-left Syriza government, and Congress would surely have resisted major expenditures on Greece, which is generally seen as Europe’s problem.

It is possible, of course, that time is on the side of the Western alliance. The Russian economy is in decline, thanks largely to low oil prices rather than the sanctions. Deterrence and containment may well protect Europe, as they have in the past, until Russian policy or Russian leadership changes once again. The great unknown is Putin himself: If he feels his personal authority is truly threatened, how will he react? He may decide that he needs another crisis—perhaps a bigger one—to mobilize the public and stay in power. The most catastrophic scenarios, of course, are the ones that the Russians themselves have been preparing for, through military exercises, during the past six years.

Looking back, Obama’s evolving attitude toward Russia has followed a familiar arc. President Jimmy Carter started with détente and ended up arming the mujahideen in Afghanistan and boycotting the Moscow Olympics. Bush started with seeing Putin’s “soul” and ended up backing Georgia in its war with Russia, at least rhetorically. Obama, likewise, started with a reset and wound up with sanctions. The question for the next president is whether he or she can avoid repeating this pattern and find ways to engage the entire European continent in the long-term project of sustaining the Western alliance and protecting it from what could be a long era of Russian revanchism


https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/europe/obama-and-europe

And Thursday will find Hollande in Moscow looking for support to go after Daesh hard, when he has been rebuffed from almost all others, and with Putin clearly willing (is he militarily and politically able? Our intel sucks so we dont know) to do it if he gains power by doing so . France could really upset the plans to contain Putin, plans which have already been failing. Obama's lack of competence in foreign affairs, his lack of interest in the world, his laziness and his lack of leadership are all going to motivate Hollande to think about ditching the Obama lectures and threats, and instead throwing in with Putin/China/Iran
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 07:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Former Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Sunday the United States should be more focused on defeating ISIS than ousting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Hagel, who was President Barack Obama's second secretary of defense, told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union" that "ISIS represents the real threat to our country -- the world."


Insisting that Assad must go eventually, though, puts the United States at risk of confusing its allies and adversaries, he said.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/22/politics/chuck-hagel-syria-isis-assad/

SMACKDOWN!

I promise you that this public rebuke of Obama was motivated by The Professor being a complete PRICK to Hollande yesterday. You dont claim on stage in front of huge numbers of cameras that you are not going to consider the opinion of the country just attacked as their leader is almost literally on his way to talk to you about it. You also on that stage dont lie about Hollande's opinion on assad, take his past opinion that you know has changed and claim to the world that this is his opinion and that he agrees with you.

We cant get this asshole out of office fast enough!

Quote:
Hagel also discussed a memo he wrote to the White House in October 2014 -- a month before he announced his resignation -- criticizing the U.S. approach to Syria and urging a clearer view of how to handle Assad.

Obama seeks tricky balance in fight against ISIS

"What's happening here is completely out of control, and there's no prospect for bringing any kind of stability, I think, on the path we're on now, and that was what I was talking about in the memo," Hagel said.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2015 09:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
However, there could be limits to how effectively the newly formed Franco-Russian alliance may play out, cautions Brisset.

“In terms of information and supplying, this collaboration could certainly be put into effect, even if political objectives differ. But to go any further than that would be politically difficult and technically complicated,” he said.

For Brisset the Franco-Russian rapprochement constitutes mere lip service.

“France hopes that the US and Russia, the true players in the game, will one day reach an agreement. But if Paris rides solo with Moscow, Washington could in turn close a couple of pipelines, namely in terms of supplies and information,” he said

http://www.france24.com/en/20151118-franco-russian-rapprochement-signals-paris-lack-consistency

Jean-Vincent Brisset, Brigadier General of the French air force and Research Director at the International Relations and Strategy Institute (IRIS).

Documenting that the French are at least pretending to consider telling Obama to **** off, and go in with the Russians.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 12:11 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Today, Cameron went to Hollande - and by all accounts, both got want they wanted.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 02:43 pm
@georgeob1,
I agree - I just think he has additional motives
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 05:38 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Good.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 05:48 pm
@georgeob1,
Oh and while I'm sure the European leaders are not fooled by his moves, the European people may be. Sending a puppy to Paris and painting "For Paris" on their bombs wasn't for Hollande's benefit.

Hollande is rightfully outraged at the attack and politically motivated to respond with strength. France can't do it alone and so he will look for willing allies no matter what the long term implications may be.

At the same time, I would hope European leaders have learned what they need to know about Obama. He's not their friend. He wants to reduce the global footprints of both the US and Europe.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2015 06:36 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
He wants to reduce the global footprints of both the US and Europe.


So you still believe that Obama is a Muslim?
 

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