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Germany Again Shows US What NOT To Do

 
 
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2015 09:23 am
Quote:
It cannot be proven, but conversations with friends, acquaintances and colleagues lead one to conclude that a large part of the population is irritated about the manner in which immigration is being discussed in the media. A widespread impression is that many media outlets cover the subject with a strange unanimity, just as if they were no longer obligated to provide information but instead, to educate the public.

The media does not create a critical distance, but instead, it advocates the unconditional support of Berlin's refugee policy. The question of whether journalists take their audiences for fools is no longer intended seriously. It has just become a popular quotation in reader forums in mass media.
The culture of debate in the country leaves much to be desired. You can argue about transit zones. However, calling them "detention centers" or "prisons" or "prison camps" poisons the political debate. The same can be said about the proposal to seal off Germany's borders. There are reasons not to do so, but arguing that closure is "impossible" is wrong. There are plenty of borders in the world that have proven otherwise, and even though they do not keep everyone out, they keep out the vast majority. One can be for or against isolation. But asserting that isolation cannot work is dishonest.
Dangerous taboos
The refugee debate is dangerously tainted by many unnecessary taboos. Not every reservation is a sign of right-wing nationalist sentiments. Doubts can simply arise from the fact that one feels that arguments are not convincing. Nor does any uneasiness about the high number of immigrants automatically reflect a radical world view. It can just as well express concerns about the country overdoing it. At 10,000 refugees per day, the concern is not entirely unfounded – and even less so, if you add up the numbers for the coming months.
Thoughts of baseball bats or guns are actually far from this type of criticism. On the contrary: Skepticism must question itself. Skeptics in particular put their reservations to the test every day, acknowledge progress where they feared failures, and do not laugh gloatingly about failures, but are actually pleased with success.
The debate on immigration has to loosen up. Arguments on both sides must not mutate into professions of faith, and factual matters must not become prejudices. If that were to happen, then Germany would face the threat of losing the most valuable European achievement: the culture of doubt


http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-germanys-culture-of-debate-has-reached-a-low-point/a-18831367

Two things are wrong with this opinion. 1) indoctrinating the masses with the message that the elite want spread around has been renamed "education" . 2) It is claimed that shutting out right-wing nationalist sentiments in the conversation is a legit use of power. Otherwise this is right on. The German Elite best learn that once the people believe that they are not interested in the truth trust will be almost impossible to win back. The old " the ends justify the means" excuse is not going to work here. Merkel growing up in East Germany really should know better.
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PettyCoatJunction
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2015 11:58 am
@hawkeye10,
You have been a little confusing in your remarks.Atleast for me. I can't tell if you are for or against. But anyway isn't the very large number of refugees entering the country. Especially refugees with such a wide gap in cultural and religious beliefs dangerous for the host nation?
The Media have not had the truth in their heart for half a century. So many people no longer turn there for the news. The media, the press have only sensationalism. Something to sway readers to their opinions so they can keep them coming back. It doesn't matter who they are hurting or what damage they are causing. What happened that the media has gone so damn far to the left?
I should include the "Elite" Whatever the hell that means. They don't give a **** about the refugee . They don't give a **** about the sovereignty of any nation . They care only about lookin good to one another. Who can out do the other. The refugees that Angela Merkel has invited are not going to assimilate.They are not going to try and make a better Germany. They are going to destroy what you had. They are unaccepting of Gay .Woman are less than men. Alcohol is shamefull and not tolerated. Christianity is evil. You'll see . In the U.S. The Hispanic immigrant is becoming the problem. PRIMARILY .because they don't want to assimillate. Instead they try to impose upon the country their ideas and laws etc.
I don't know.... Just my 2 Cents ...
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2015 12:19 pm
@PettyCoatJunction,
Quote:
I can't tell if you are for or against.


I am for working journalism

I am for full and free debate

I am for free speech

I am against those in power suppressing the opinion of the people

I think that the Germans and the Europeans in general are idiots for talking in all these people, but this thread was intended to be more about the manipulation of the little people by the elite and the presses roll in this. I want to talk about the dangers of not having the consent of the people before such major moves are made, and lets be clear that consent required the informed and freely given approval, which has not happened in Germany.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Nov, 2015 08:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I think that the Germans and the Europeans in general are idiots


Yes they are. In another 200 years they may catch with the average tea bagger.
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Nov, 2015 07:05 am
Quote:
Recently, I just returned to Germany after spending a couple of years in the United States as a foreign correspondent. In that time that I've been back, I've become concerned, wrought with worry that my own country is losing its civility
In America, I was often appalled by the brutality of a society where the majority support the death penalty and police are allowed to shoot people in the back even if they don't present an immediate threat. I can't change the fact that I am German, but for some time, I was pleased with that destiny. I was proud -- not proud of Germany, but proud to be from a country that had apparently succeeded in becoming more empathetic and civil.
Firing on Refugees?

But the country I have returned to is a different one. It's a country in which the state chairman of the right-wing populist Alternative for Germany (AFD) party in North Rhine-Westphalia has declared that, if need be, Germany's borders must be "protected using the force of arms," which would mean no less than allowing refugees to be shot at.

It's a country in which journalist Helmut Schümann could be clobbered from behind and disparaged as a "filthy leftist pig" because, a few days earlier, he had written a critical column in the Berlin daily Tagesspiegel entitled "Is this still our country?"

It's a country in which the candidate for mayor in Cologne, Germany's fourth largest city, could be seriously wounded with a knife because her assailant didn't like her refugee policies.

It's a country in which 30 Germans hunted down and beat up Syrian refugees using baseball bats in the eastern city of Magdeburg.

It's a country where the language used to foment against foreigners -- both on the ground and online -- makes even Donald Trump's tirades against immigrants seem harmless.

I suspect that one of the first reader comments after this gets posted will be, "Get lost you traitor."

On a recent Sunday, a group of tax drivers was waiting in the military area of Berlin's Tegel airport, the terminal used for flights by high-ranking government officials. The German defense minister had just arrived from Bahrain in an official government jet, but the taxi drivers apparently thought the plane was carrying Chancellor Angela Merkel. One proudly told me that he and his colleagues had half-joked that if one of them received Merkel as a passenger, that he would driver her to a nearby lake, tie stones to her feet and let her sink to the bottom. Because of her refugee policies.

Base Sentiment

What has happened to Germany? Does the sudden influx of hundreds of thousands of refugees justify forgetting almost everything that used to be important to us? The refugee crisis is, of course, a challenge. Solving it will take time, money and energy. But Germany has all the resources it needs to manage this crisis without surrendering its civility. Instead the mood in the country is akin to a drunken rage of the kind last seen in the beer halls of the 1920s Weimar Republic -- that period of crude, uncivilized behavior that paved the way for Hitler's rise and the most brutal decade in world history.


Then, too, criticism and anxiety wasn't put forth in the form of discourse. It was expressed in the form of fist fights on the streets. We know today that this culture of brutality played a considerable role in the failure of Germany's first attempt at democracy. Ultimately, the loud and the brutal severed society's vulnerable ties. We are obviously not anywhere close to that point today. Those threatening our society today are not in the majority, but there is still a large number of them. The Federal Republic of Germany established a functioning democracy in the decades after Hitler and its people had good reasons to be proud of the country's political culture. But no one should take it as a certainty that this achievement is safe forever.
It's also, incidentally, highly paradoxical that many of the people who are expressing this anti-social behavior today have adopted terms like "the cultural nation Germany" or "the land of poets and thinkers" to justify their actions, because nothing would be more shameful to the dead poets and thinkers than the gentlemen who are fueling xenophobic sentiment, issuing orders to fire at refugees or calling for Angela Merkel to be drowned or hanged.

In his "Winter Tale," the great German poet and thinker Heinrich Heine once wrote: "O how I detest the trumpery set, Who, to stir men's passion heated, Of patriotism make a show, With all its ulcers fetid


http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/editorial-on-anti-refugee-sentiment-in-germany-a-1062442.html

Yes, but that point at which the German democracy went bad was not when those opposed to the invasion vent their anger at not being invested, it was when they were disinvested by the politicians and the journalists who consistently shut out their opinions and insist that they are bad Germans because they dont have the " right" opinion on " migrants".
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