The Return of the Left

Can't really disagree there, although it sometimes seems to be more zig-zagging like the wishy-washy I'm used to see in my party :wink: (which definately is more left then the Democratic Party).

In that case you've got nothing to worry about. There are no liberals running for president in the U.S.A. this year. Better luck next time.

One the biggest laughs of the current US campaign has to do with the Kerry-Edwards ticket as being "the most liberal" ever to run. What a riot.

It's part of a Big Lie effort to scare people into voting for Bush: "Kerry is a Massachusetts liberal! Run for your life!!"

Some of the purveyors of this BS are frequent posters in this forum...

Hmmmm? the angel of revenge?
Could you explain further?

Okay. Do two things with this paragraph.
First, change "the left's America" to "everybody's America" beause the left doesn't only care about it's ideology, and as Kennedy said, it's everybody's country, not just left or right. The policies of the democratic party consider all Americans, not just the segment who votes for it.
Second, Disprove it, if you think it's wrong! I'd love to see it refuted and I'd love it to be wrong, but it aint looking good. Lots of luck!

You are already in your bedroom and not covered, I suppose?

Then just wait and see what happens when the angel of revenge arrives and talks to you.

nimh:

Moore may be the best we can present. I don't think Noam Chomsky is telegenic enough to appeal to mainstream america.

As well as his "Egghead" credentials.

But what McG and the "Flock" forget is that Bush's Imperialsm, etc was what activated this "Left".

Bush's perfect storm
The so-called radical left have never held power in this country. They've never come close even at the state level. There have been some minor left success as the local level, but that is rare. The country shifts from time to time from moderate conservatism to moderate liberalism, but mostly conservatism because the non-elite classes vote as manipulated rather than in their own interests.

The Bush administration has broken this moderate right and left pattern. It is the most extreme right radical administration in the country's history. They have demonstrated that right wing radicals cannot be trusted to govern anymore than left wing radicals. This country can only successfully be governed from the center, not the extremes of the right and left. The Bush administration did indeed hit the trifecta, the perfect storm of controlling of the three branches of government. A disaster for this country and for the world.

BBB

Well, thats pretty sad then.

(I have seen his Fahrenheit 9/11 by now, I've been wanting to get round to commenting on it ... will do later)

Anyway, give me, say, Daniel Cohn-Bendit any day. Or Joschka Fischer or something.

Re: Bush's perfect storm


And this statement is a great example of how the left think about most Americans. Kind of reminds you of Moore's statement about Americans being dumb. The vast majority of us are too dumb to know what is best for us and so we need a vast government to tell us what to think. How strange it is that when we are manipulated to vote a particular way it is always a vote favoring conservative issues. I guess then when we vote for liberal issues we are thinking for ourselves, right?

And just so I understand you correctly, who is a non-elite? I am just curious since language like that seems to be divisive and not in line with democrats who claim to be all-inclusive. But I just want to know what you mean by elite so I know whether I qualify or am just some dumb manipulated soul.

CoastalRat
CoastalRat, I'm sure someone as smart as you can figure out what I mean by the non-elite. I wouldn't want to insult your intelligence by having to tell you.

However, here's a hint from the GOP's elite master manipulator second only to Karl Rove, Bush's brain:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29990&highlight=&sid=e885dcf0c8b32f61509b6d6477657426

BBB

Great link I guess, but one that does not answer my question. Who is the non-elite in this country? Are you saying anyone without riches would qualify? That would include about 90% or so I guess and I would have to admit I am a part of that, unless I am reading my balance sheet wrong.

Maybe you mean those who are not in any position of power? I guess that still represents 90% of the country though.

Or maybe by non-elite you mean only those who are not intelligent enough to realize we should blindly vote for the democrats who know what is in our best interest? Now I think the percentage is getting closer to 50% of the country.

So please feel free to insult my intelligence and explain what you mean by non-elites? After all, Mr. Moore whom so many hold in such high esteem has already insulted the intelligence of us all so you adding your voice to his won't hurt me any I can assure you.

CoastalRat
CoastalRat, re American Politics. A wise scholar said:

Americanists conduct theoretical, institutional, and behavioral analyses of topics in both domestic politics and foreign relations, using a variety of methodologies ranging from literary analyses to mathematical modeling. Typically, Americanists draw on several of these approaches when conducting their political studies.

Political theorists, for instance, examine the American "noble experiment" in order to assess its "nobility" and its contribution to the development of democratic government. But that assessment requires institutional and behavioral studies of actual political processes. These, in turn, require strong theoretical grounding if they are to proceed beyond mere description.

Institutional studies encompass far more than analyses of the Presidency, Courts, and Congress, including urban politics, interest groups, intergovernmental relations, and electoral processes.

Behavioral analyses focus on the sources, types, and levels of political activity for both "elites" (leaders and activists) and "non-elites" (the public). This research draws heavily upon the other social sciences and humanities, as well as comparative studies.

You may find the following site illuminating:

The World System; the Elite and the Non-Elites:

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:HotTKfCnwRUJ:courses.nus.edu.sg/course/socsja/SC2202/Forces/Global2d.html+who+are+the+elites+and+who+are+the+non-elites&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Ok BBB, my best guess then based on the site you sent me to is that you believe "elites" are those who rule while "non-elites" are those who do not. Does that sound right? I hope so cause you are really making me work hard to answer the simple question of what you meant by non-elites. So if I have it wrong I guess there will be more people besides you and Mr. Moore insulting my intelligence.

Anyway, if that is what you mean, then I guess you are painting the vast majority of Americans both left, right, and in between as being manipulated by all parties into voting the way we do. Which, if I follow that logic, would seem to back up Mr. Moore's belief that we are dumb.

So let me ask you one last question if I may. Do you consider yourself one of the dumb manipulated voters like the rest of us or are you part of the elite ruling class (assuming I understand what you meant by elite/non-elite) trying to manipulate the rest of us into voting your way?

The ability to ask that question at all implies that you are an elite, CR.

Cycloptichorn

CoastalRat
CoastalRat, tagging the non-elite as "dumb" are your words, not mine, which tells me a lot about you.

As for myself, I'm one of the smart non-elite who cannot be fooled by the manipulations of the elite of any stripe. That's probably because I've been a dogma challenger all of my life.

BBB

Thanks Cy. I guess I am moving up in the world. I always wanted to be elite at something. Now if only my wife would fall into line I would be a happy man.

Who?

Daniel Cohn Bendit - former '68 firebrand, now the French/German "thinker" of the European Greens; Joschka Fischer - Green Party leader and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Germany (and according to the polls, by far the most popular politician in the country).

nimh:

I should've checked your location.

You're going "Euro" on me!