tony5732
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 10:32 am
@FBM,
His arm got twisted and his face got brought to the ground... If that was a black person there would have been a big stink made over that. Those weren't even cops either, that was a chef and a manager.
Ragman
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 10:37 am
@tony5732,
Unless you are purposely being obtuse or obfuscating ...
What you are missing is logic and creating a parallel comparison. Put yourself in a scenario where you are comparing like situations where race or (bias towards social class) comes into play.

For example, two people are applying for a job position - a white and and black man with similar credentials are both applying for the same job. Or both are applying for membership in a country club. That is where you're likely to see that bias show up.

Quote:
However, non white people who are born into middle class or higher don't seem to have these problems as much

You mean because you don't see it or are aware of it, then it doesn't exist? seriously?!

Here's a real-life example. Around 1995 in Wellesley, Mass (upper-class community and home of Wellesley College ...where Hillary graduate) a then-member of the Boston Celtics (NBA team) Dee Brown was wrestled to the ground simply because he was a black man...walking around in a very white and very rich city. He did absolutely nothing suspicious whatsoever. This is well-published incident. He said nothing at all to the police to provoke or antagonize.
Ragman
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 10:58 am
@tony5732,
This incident happened around 1990. He had just bought a $750,000 home in the town:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/09/07/for_blacks_bus_mix_up_hits_home/
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 01:11 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
Dee Brown was wrestled to the ground simply because he was a black man...walking around in a very white and very rich city. He did absolutely nothing suspicious whatsoever. This is well-published incident. He said nothing at all to the police to provoke or antagonize.


Did the police tell him to get on the ground? If he refused that is why he was wrestled down.

And did Dee Brown know blacks commit a lot of crimes? That is the biggest reason for what you call profiling. If the people committing the most crimes were Asian it would be the same thing.
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 08:32 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 08:37 pm
@Ragman,
No more ignorant than you thinking you can explain away human behavior and judge people based on manufactured guilt.
Ragman
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 09:04 pm
@coldjoint,
Did you actually read the article? I used to live in that city. I know the police force at the time this happened. I know that town and the details.

Perhaps when you become better informed you might have some sort of leg to stand on. Right now you sound like an idiot.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 09:19 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
I used to live in that city. I know the police force at the time this happened.


Is this Brian Williams?http://www.acidpulse.net/images/smilies/agent_smith.gif
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 09:28 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
Right now you sound like an idiot.


Quote:
Professor: Not Being a Red-Head Now a "Privilege"


Tell me about it. I can only believe you buy this load of **** also.http://www.acidpulse.net/images/smilies/lolol.gif

http://www.thesocialmemo.org/2015/10/professor-not-being-red-head-now.html
0 Replies
 
tony5732
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 11:00 pm
@Ragman,
Ok. But 1995 was 20 years ago. Affirmative action takes care of racial bias when applying for jobs doesn't it? If not I really didn't notice, because I have worked with more black people than white people.
tony5732
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 11:02 pm
@Ragman,
Not ignoring your post here but same point. That is a generation ago.
0 Replies
 
tony5732
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 7 Oct, 2015 11:16 pm
@engineer,
No, actually most of my performance bonuses (in the places that had them) where based on numbers. For example, if you got 1000 packages in a truck on average for a month, you got a bonus that month. I don't know how that can be racist, you either achieved the goal, or you didn't. No I didn't get stopped a million times because skin color, but when I do get stopped I would never have that to blame either, so I don't know. I get pulled over once in a while if I speed, or forget my sticker, but the first thought isn't "this is because I am white".
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2015 06:36 am
@tony5732,
tony5732 wrote:

Ok. But 1995 was 20 years ago. Affirmative action takes care of racial bias when applying for jobs doesn't it? If not I really didn't notice, because I have worked with more black people than white people.


Maybe ask some of them about white privilege?
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 11 Oct, 2015 10:23 am
Quote:
What makes “white privilege” so attractive is that it’s personal. All white people have it. At the same time, it’s not like admitting you’re a racist—that would be just too awful. White privilege happens to you passively, whether you know it or not, so it’s not even really your fault. But admitting that you have it and, of course, feeling bad about it, means you are a very sensitive, very good white person.


This article identifies the origin of white privilege narrative.
Quote:

As Peggy McIntosh put it, “I have come to see white privilege as an invisible package of unearned assets that I can count on cashing in each day . . . . White privilege is like an invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools, and blank checks.” The crucial point is that the stuff in the invisible knapsack is unearned, undeserved, and every single white person is born with all this loot.

In discovering white privilege, Peggy discovered that she, too, was, in her words, “an oppressor,” “an unfairly advantaged person,” and “a participant in a damaged culture.” That’s enough to make a good white person feel exquisitely bad.


http://www.amren.com/archives/videos/white-privilege/
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  5  
Reply Sun 11 Oct, 2015 12:19 pm
@tony5732,
As a black man, I have not been a victim of racial profiling often, but I have definitely been the victim of racial profiling. I recall one time being pulled over by a police officer for no apparent reason. The police officer says he pulled me over because my vehicle registration had expired. I showed him my registration showing that it had not expired and that my plates were current. He then ask me where was I going and then he let me go. There was another time I've had a older Caucasian lady tell a grocery store manager that she had saw me steal something and put something in my pocket. First, I never stole anything in my life. Second, the only time my hands were in my pocket is when I was putting my cell phone in my pocket and taking my cell phone out of my pocket. Yes, I could provide one or two more examples. But, I think my point has been made.
0 Replies
 
bjacky
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 03:04 pm
@tony5732,
The civil rights movement happened in the mid-60s, less than a generation ago. Before that, African Americans were considered a lower class. It was harder for them coming of the reels of slavery to obtain land, work ect. than their counterparts, especially with their counterparts still having a bias toward them .

They missed the big land rush that Abraham Lincoln gave to everyone. They did not have the same education as their counterparts which also made it harder for them to compete with their counterparts and they had to deal with the fear of the KKK in the back of their minds and or being charged for crimes they didn't commit on all-white juries without a defense attorney.

So essentially, they started getting the same playing ground in the 70s but it. However, they were still in the same socio and economic status at that time and the same bias and persecution existed at that time.

Many African Americans born in the 70s and 80s were still born in those conditions and still the same today. It takes a while to overcome the bitter fruits of slavery and the Jim Crow laws. It doesn't happen in a decade or two decades or three or four.

So a person that does not have ancestors that were slaves or ancestors that were treated as a different socio-economic status is at an advantage. As a result of the past, and their heritage many Africans Americans live in poorer neighborhoods with a cost-benefit ratio of doing crime being much higher due to education and socio economic status.

Police target those areas for crime as a result and we now have a higher ratio of African Americans in prison for drug-related charges compared to other races.

If you weren't raised in compton or other areas in the Ghetto being raised with just a mom while Dad is in prison, knowing who the gangmembers are, being pressured into joining a gang, seeing and knowing people who get shot every week, knowing what areas one can and cannot be because of gang territories, essentially having to raise yourself and your siblings and your cousins because your mother is working or passed out all the time, having to deal with physical violence, living in that atmosphere and trying to survive and get a way out with the only option being education and or sports or just joining a gang, on top of fear of being stereotyped by police interrogated by police, arrested by police and possibly beaten and or shot by police for living in that area and never have to worry about ever being sterotyped by police even if you got out of that area through education or sports for the rest of your life and knowing that there are groups out there, with a history of your ancestors being persecuted, hated, beaten and killed by the KKK which was supported by many government leaders and knowing that there is still a group of people still out there that still hate you having never met you just because you have a darker complexion of them, being called racial names from individuals who aren't part of the KKK but are still very racist, then yes, whether you are male or female and Caucasian you are privileged primarily.

There are exceptions to both side but generally speaking that is a snapshot of where we are right now. Many people that live in "primarily white" areas that were raised after the Civil Rights movement seem to think that the playing field is now level, things are ok, we have moved on and the world has been set right, that many African Americans are famous singers and sports stars and that any advantage that an African American gets, such as getting into college above a bunch of other white people is unfair.

This is not the case. Before someone starts pushing against the white privilege card, first move to Compton and live there for a year, learn from and talk to the people that have ancestors during the time of slavery and the civil rights movement, how their parents survived, what they had to do to get by, what they had to suffer from other people because of racism, what kind of education experiences they had and what life is like now as far as education and opportunities.

Only after that, I think someone would then have the chance to know whether or not it is worth it to push against whether or not people from European descent with lighter complexion are privileged above another race.
hibbitus
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2017 08:33 am
I am a 70 year old white male. My first encounter with white privilege occurred in the late 60's. I was in college studying to be an engineer and was friends with a black guy named Ben who was in my calculus class. Ben was the second best mathematician in the class. Of course, Ben would claim that I was the second best mathematician in the class. We were probably each right about 50% of the time.

There was a federal law forbidding discrimination in restaurants. One day Ben and I were having lunch together and I suggested a pizza place I visited regularly. We entered and were seated. The usual time passed to be served and there was nobody to take our order. (This was back when pizza was served in an ordinary restaurant.)
More time passed and I told Ben that I was going to complain to the manager.

When I stood up, Ben stopped me. His face was a mixture of pain and resignation. He suggested another place where they served Negroes (the appropriate name for the time) and I realized what had happened. The restaurant would serve me and any other white people. They would allow black people to be seated as required by law. But they wouldn't wait on them. If anyone complained they were just very busy.

As an aside, Ben loved to sun bathe and was always after me to come with him. This was before the days of sunscreen and my Scots/Irish skin burned in about 20 minutes. So I always declined. One day Ben came into the classroom and he was no longer black, he was bright purple. I have never seen the skin color before or since and after class I had some fun with him over it.

Turned out that Ben had fallen asleep and got his first ever sunburn. I think it was only then that he understood my distaste for sun bathing. Of course, after that, I spent a lot of my time making up remarks about purple people.

After I went to work in the 70's I got in many arguments with the white engineers I worked with who were Republican and racist as hell. I knew that black people made less money than white people, but I honestly thought that would change as the children from both races went to school together and became friends. Boy was I naive.

In the 80's a black friend of mine named Elvie was shopping for land to build a house. He had found what he wanted, called the realtor and made an appointment to see the land. Elvie did not have the standard accent associated with black people of the time.) When Elvie arrived at the appointment, the realtor took one look and told him that the land had already been sold.

Elvie asked me to call about the land , (I'm a hillbilly and Elvie said I had the whitest voice of anyone he knew.) I called and was told the land was available if I wanted to come look at it. I said I would talk to my wife about a suitable time and gave him a phone number to reach me. It was the number of a service called Dial a Prayer.

I told Elvie that if he wanted to go to court that I would testify, but all I saw was the same look of pain and resignation. This particular story has a happy ending.
A short time later, Elvie bought a house big enough to need three zip codes. But I can't forget that look nor that cavalier attitude of the realtor.

Elvie and I were part of a group that had monthly parties. When it was my turn to host, the whole gang, including Elvie, came to my house. (This was well into the 80's). The next morning, I got a knock at the door and when I opened it, I thought the entire neighborhood was on my front porch. They told me that they had noticed the black family at my house the previous night and wanted to know if I planned to have them back. I got mad and told them, "Any goddamn time I wanted to."
They said they were just asking and left.

I pretty much forgot about these incidents as I grew older and saw black people who appeared to intermingle with whites, They were in the same stores, same restaurants, and so on.

Then the news started showing footage of cops murdering black people. I was in physical therapy at the time with a black therapist. I asked her why she wasn't mad as hell about the shootings. She told me she had lived all of her life with it. Her children were not allowed to play more than two blocks from her house for fear of harassment (perhaps physical) by whites. And they were well trained never to look a policeman in the eye. I was flabbergasted and talked to several other black friends who told me similar stories. Nobody had ever mentioned it; they all just accepted it as a fact of life.

The only thing that has made me happier than the present revulsion to capitalism is the growth of Black Lives Matter. I don't claim to understand white privilege.
But I have seen it and know that it exists and that it is ugly. I was always proud to be an American until the past 5 years or so. Now, I have given up hope that I ever will be again.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2017 08:55 am
This has evolved into an interesting thread.
0 Replies
 
hibbitus
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2017 09:22 am
@bjacky,
I believe your analysis is correct bu leaves out a big part of the story. The people who own this country (the 50 or so plutocrats) have encouraged racial prejudice as a means of controlling the population. I'm white, and if poor white people and poor black people ever united, the plutocrats would be finished.

So they feed both blacks and whites with propaganda to keep us antagonistic towards each other. According to Howard Zinn this started with the early (pre civil war) plantation owners. I believe it has been maintained ever since and so far it has worked wonderfully.

If works very much like a team of pickpockets. The social media distract us with bullshit which keeps us separated, and the plutocrats plunder our dwindling wealth.
It is shameful, but it is the way the world works just now.

God I hope that none of the socialists are racist or ignore people of color when they take over the wealth.
0 Replies
 
 

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