Jon Voight castigates Moore

Forums: Politics, Michael Moore
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The Iraqis who have risen up America and the occupation are not insurgents or terrorists or the enemy. They are the revolution, the Minutemen. And their numbers will grow. And they will win.

I'll say it again, the idea of comparing the diehard baathists and fedayeen saddam insurgents in Iraq with our own minutemen is nausiating. These people were the Hussein family's version of an SS, murderers and cutthroats lifted from the prisons and sewers of Iraq and forged into a personal samurai by Uday and Qusay Hussein, they are in the same positon which Ceausescu's orphan brigades were in after the fall of that horrid regime in Romania, i.e. they have nowhere else to go, no country which will take them in, nothing to lose and no options other than death or regaining power over Iraq, and they are willing to do any amount of damage to that poor country to regain power over it.

Michael Moore is a greedy, stupid, fat, evil pervert who will ultimately learn that he was supposed to do something useful with whatever talents he was born with, and there will be some sort of a price tag for his not having done that.

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Well, you know, many Americans don't know what's going on in the world or even in the US, so Moore is correct on that point.
but I don't put much stock into what he or Voight says when it's merely opinion without corroborating evidence, some of which I've seen to back up some of Moore's points. Where are Voights?

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He likely lost them inside that anaconda that swallowed him whole. Considering his movie choices of the past decade, I don't think Mr. Voight should have much weight in criticizing anything.

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the reincarnation of suzy wrote:

Well, you know, many Americans don't know what's going on in the world or even in the US, so Moore is correct on that point.
but I don't put much stock into what he or Voight says when it's merely opinion without corroborating evidence, some of which I've seen to back up some of Moore's points. Where are Voights?

Is there some secret blood oath that Liberal cannot criticize Michael Moore?

Moore didn't make the point that many Americans don't know what's going on in the world or even in the US. His point was that Americans are dumb and ignorant.

Why do you feel it necessary to interpret Moore's comments in, what you believe to be, the most benificent of lights?

What evidence backs up Moore's points?

Your reflexive disregard for the intelligence and principles of your fellow Americans?

If you'd take the time to read Voight's comments you would see that he was remarkably careful to characterize his comments as opinion.

Moore announced to an audience of Europeans that Americans were dumb and ignorant. He didn't say that in his opinion they were dumb and ignorant and he offered nothing in the way of supporting the contention as a fact or an opinion.

Interestingly enough, Voight was a fair haired boy of the Left when he was joining with Jane Fonda in opposing the Vietnam war. Apparently, he's lost all intelligence and credibility now that he's appeared on Scarborough COuntry and criticized Moore.

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(Funny when movie stars proclaim their opinion that it's only accepted if one agrees with it).

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Moore is not beyond reproach. Yet, when he calls Americans dumb and ignorant, I think right away of the fact that half of the voting public supports G W Bush for re-election. It's sort of like Lincoln's "You can fool some of the people all of the time -"
Jon Voight has as much right to an opinion as any other human being. I have always liked him without much regard for his politics.

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You're completely right, of course, edgarblythe. I don't always agree with Moore's rhetoric but the whole picture rings true. How novel everyone is trying to be. As if this administration isn't one-sided? You mean to tell me there are two sides to an argument? I've ever heard that before. Moore is an effective salesperson. He's selling ideas and if you plunk your money down for a ticket to the movie, buyor rent the DVD, or watch it on Showtime, or network TV then you're paying for it. Okay, on network TV, you've got to watch commercials to pay for it. Of course, mediocre sitcom, cloned cop show network TV won't take the initiative and be brave enough to broadcast the film. But maybe one can look for it on ABC and they won't have a problem finding sponsors. I'm fantasizing, naturally -- it will more likely find its way onto PBS.

Those statements by Moore, incidentally, were recorded by one reporter. If you believe journalists more than you believe polticians, you're in deep doo doo.

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Moore's film on broadcast television - Don't see it happening.

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You're too fast, eb -- I edited my post to reflect that I was supposing a broadcast TV showing.

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(Network execs mostly play it safe -- that's why the programming is generally so booooring).

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swolf,

You just don't get it.
Freedom of speech means the right to say things that are very offensive. Acceptable speech does not need protection.

What you and your supporters don't seem to understand is that if someone somewhere (the government, police, vigilantes), has to approve what is spoken, then free speech doesn't exist. Think of the Soviet Union and Nazism. Artists, writers, everyone had to submit their work to government bureaus for approval.

Speeking of those totalitarian dictatorships, I don't like you, Voight, or others trying to change my country into a dictatorship. However much I detest your and Voights' contempt for the first amendment of our constitution, I am reluctantly required to allow you to make profoundly anti-American and un-American remarks.

Do you get it, yet? When I hear and read people like you willing to sell out our country, it makes me feel angry that I volunteered for the military in time of war just to give you the right to bad mouth our freedom.

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Because despite how righties choose to interpret it, Finn, it is glaringly apparent that obviously Moore does not believe all Americans are idiots, (he is one) and he was speaking in general terms (perhaps you want to look that up?) that yes, many Americans sure are stupid. It's like when I say republicans suck. Most people know I don't really mean all republicans. I think that Europeans are capable of catching nuance, too. Apparently more so than you are! If you want to say he should perhaps choose his words more carefully, well, so should many others, including the president, whose words are much more damaging. We all speak off the cuff sometimes, don't we?
Moore provides documentation in all forms for most of what he asserts. It is for that simple reason that I'd be more inclined to value his words than one who does not cite any evidence. Do I believe every word he might utter? No. Do I have to, in order to make my previous statement? NOPE.

"Your reflexive disregard for the intelligence and principles of your fellow Americans?"

Nice try! I am merely admitting and agreeing that SOME Americans ARE stupid. Is there some proof otherwise? Smile

I think not. So why don't you just relax and allow YOUR fellow Americans to speak without trying to twist their (my) meanings, hmm?

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Nice try? I like the "love everyone" philosophy despite the fact that some might be terminally stupid and getting through life by the seat-of-their-pants. We don't have many low thinkers on this forum, right or left. Yet I see all of us (including myself) always playing that same game of catch-up. All of us can play the same game as Moore. He's just more adept at it.

Although I've been involved with making movies, I've neve conceived that I could make one myselrf. "F9/11" is a phenominal achievement whether one believes it is propaganda or revelatory philosophy. It's really somewhere inbetween in the sense of popular culture. I would rather encourage someone to read Gore Vidal's "United States" than see the film. Moore has an agenda and I appreciate his effort -- it is a dynamic film whether one agrees or disagrees. To rag on it without seeing is is insincerity to the Nth degree.

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BillyFalcon wrote:

swolf,

You just don't get it.
Freedom of speech means the right to say things that are very offensive. Acceptable speech does not need protection.

What you and your supporters don't seem to understand is that if someone somewhere (the government, police, vigilantes), has to approve what is spoken, then free speech doesn't exist. Think of the Soviet Union and Nazism. Artists, writers, everyone had to submit their work to government bureaus for approval.

Speeking of those totalitarian dictatorships, I don't like you, Voight, or others trying to change my country into a dictatorship. However much I detest your and Voights' contempt for the first amendment of our constitution, I am reluctantly required to allow you to make profoundly anti-American and un-American remarks.

Do you get it, yet? When I hear and read people like you willing to sell out our country, it makes me feel angry that I volunteered for the military in time of war just to give you the right to bad mouth our freedom.

I did not say anything about punishing Moore for his rancid bullshit in this world. What he implied was that he would be punished in the next world.

Take your stupid lecture and complaints to God and see what he has to say about it.

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The chief perveyor of "rancid bullshit" who could be likely punished in this world hath spoken. I really don't care what God thinks about anybody's "stupid lecture" and especially the obvious ones.

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Lightwizard wrote:

(Funny when movie stars proclaim their opinion that it's only accepted if one agrees with it).

LW do you have a program running on your PC that notifies you whenever someone takes a shot at your sensi - Moore?

Jon Voight castigates Moore

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