12
   

Is this the end game for Bolivarian Socialism in Venezuela

 
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2016 05:00 pm
@georgeob1,
I am not obliged to only make observations of which you approve. Get over yourself.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2016 05:12 pm
@Setanta,
You appear to be replying to a post I wrote two months ago.

It's OK: we both have the freedom to write whatevcr we want here and to express our reactions to those of others as we wish. You use that freedom: so do I, and to more or less the same degree, though I believe I moderate my dissatisfactions a bit more than do you.,
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2016 08:00 pm
I don't have time to read the thread just now, but I have a belief that the people want socialistic government, but they want it realistically and honestly, something for the people to prosper.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2016 09:47 pm
@edgarblythe,
Which of course, they are not getting.
Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 04:48 am
@georgeob1,
It may surprise you to learn that i do not follow you around the site, awaiting you latest posts with breath abated.

I have no doubt, however, that you entertain a high opinion of your own virtue.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 09:50 am
@Setanta,
. I made no suggestion or even inference that I thought you were following me around here. That hadn't occurred to me. However, now that you have mentioned it, you do arrear to be struggling against demons of your own imagination.

Relax. No one has attacked you. Why the hell are you so irratible?
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 09:58 am
from CBC Day 6 podcast (8:41) today

What Venezuela's diaper shortage says about the country's economic crisis

fairly complete transcript at the link above

good links to other features re Venezuelan politics and economy embedded in the transcript

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 10:11 am
@edgarblythe,
That's certainly true.

Venezuala is a rich country endowed with vast petroleum reserves, forests and ample, rich agricultural potential. Before the Chavista's took over it was one of the most prosperous countries on the continent. Now after a decade of inept socialistic rule it imports nearly all that it consumes, both in terms of food and other products. Worse, even its petoleum production is down by over 1/3rd due to the inept manasgement of the ruling socialist party that took over a once efficient company, soon after it seized power. Now owing to the stupid, inept authoritarian management of the economy and the unsustainable burdens of debt accumulated by this government, even trade and the distribution of the remaining goods has broken down, creating truly dangerous conditions for the people. Now the government demands forced labor on government "farms" (though they have sinced cynically restyled it as a search for "volunteers". This is hardly the socialist nirvanah that the now departed dictator Chavez promised, though it increasingly resembles its soviet socialist predecessors, and of course, Castro's Cuba.

The Chavistas have, from the start, ruled in an authoritarian manner, ignoring and silencing all inconvenient democratic elements in the government and imprisioning political opponents. This is not unlike the Socialist regimes of the unlamented Soviet empire, and indeed appears to be an inseparable part of socialist states that assume rule over economic activity.
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 12:30 pm
@georgeob1,
You tell me to relax, that i'm irritable, that i have demons of my own imagination . . . all while telling me that no one has attacked me. The Jesuits didn't get through to you about logic, huh?

I did not say that you thought i was following you around. You made a comment about my having replied months after you had posted. I was pointing out that i don't follow you around, and therefore references to how long it took me to reply are meaningless. This is not surprising, as so much of what you post is meaningless, and generally seems to be for the purpose of forwarding your polemical position.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 12:36 pm
@Setanta,
Well then I'm very relieved to learn that you are not at all irritable and prone to excesses here!
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  4  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 12:38 pm
So who is the masked thumbs downer following George around?

What did you do?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 12:52 pm
@georgeob1,
problem with many of these countries is that their economies are not led by their own designs. Most of the GDPs NOW are extractive or exploitive. Theyve always needed a mixture of say, plastics nd then base that into designs of , say, solr engineering or some mfg processes like home grown machinery or ag equipmnt (like Brazil and was) [Venezueln steel was always really good stuff until the Chistas cqme in qnd totlly fucked that industry over ). I bought a Ve.nezuelan Bulwhip once . I dont thin an economy can be based on oil sugar, beef, and bullwhips. The steel industry needs a shot in the ass and some strong design investment. (Start with some infrastructure like clean water)
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 01:21 pm
@farmerman,
I fully agree. However the Chavistas have discouraged enterprise and industry wherever the could find it, preferring to buy politiccal support through giveaways to favored groups funded by the assets of companies like Pdvista/Citco, its formerly independant petroleum producer, which the government expropriated; staffed with its cronies; and has driven production down(so far) by over 1/3rd). Very hard to imagine a more stupid and counter productive policy.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 01:30 pm
@georgeob1,
venezuelan steel was world class. Now all they do is ship ore to china who makes crappy crystalline steel.
Leadfoot
 
  3  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 01:32 pm
@farmerman,
Good for making rebar out of. But that's about all.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 01:39 pm
@Leadfoot,
some of the best stainless was venezuelan until the 70;s. NOW , the most they got is making tac pellets.

GEORGE--course probly we hqve a hand in the downturn . venezuela hqd more oil resevres than all the countries in the western hemisphere combined. NOW, with the discovery nd exploitqtion of shqle gas nd wet gqs, PA and new york alone have almost as much proven (and maybe moire with unproven) reserve as f Venezuela. Its a hard thing to turn on.Shale gas and methane "seadrops" almost make up a renewable resource.

Leadfoot
 
  3  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 01:45 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Shale gas and methane "seadrops" almost make up a renewable resource.
Methane sea drops? interesting. Must look into that.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 01:48 pm
@farmerman,
My last trip in the mines of Venezuela was in Hugo's years , and we could see the end of privatization (Chavez nationalized the SIDOR steel mills I think in 2006 0r 7)
They used to make gret steel rails and billet for tool steel nd hevy use . They made W steek for mining . AND as soon s they ere renationalized, ppphhhhtttt, big downturn in the quality amnd production (Hugo , like Trump, hd NO fuckin ideas about economics of a NATION or how to work with people who know what they are doing). I switchwed my projects over to Argentina an Chile and hve only felt soorry for the people under Hugo.

His cancer was a great career move but I think the present failed state is even worse.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 01:53 pm
@Leadfoot,
"seadrops" are my term that I made up for a geochem class I ran. The official names are Mwtrhyl clathrqte of Methane hydrates.

These are formations of biotic methane (Bug farts) in a specific thermodynamic range of P/T.

If the Bermuda tringle ere a real thing, maybe methyl clthrates could hve cuse the sinking of some bots (not really big ones) because of the acres nd acres of fomy bubbles that a clthrate exhudes if disturbed by seismic events or even a hurricane.

I dont "believe" in the Bermuda tringle because no seismic events are ever recorded henever some ship shows up missing. AND why the hell do airplanes even give a ****?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2016 04:25 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

.GEORGE--course probly we hqve a hand in the downturn . venezuela hqd more oil resevres than all the countries in the western hemisphere combined. NOW, with the discovery nd exploitqtion of shale gas nd wet gqs, PA and new york alone have almost as much proven (and maybe moire with unproven) reserve as f Venezuela. Its a hard thing to turn on.Shale gas and methane "seadrops" almost make up a renewable resource.


It is true that heavy Venezuelan crude is more expensive to process and therefore commands a lower price in some world markets. However U.S, refineries in Louisiana ands East Texas specialize in processing it and remain the chief buyers of Venezuelan output. I fully agree that the much cheaper extraction of much purer shale gas and oil is a threat to the future growth of Venezuelan markets. However even there The Chavistas didit to themselves, when they seized PDVSTA/Citgo and staffed it with Chavista cdronies, plundered its financial reserves, and, as a result lowered efficiency and output well below the demands of a sill voracious market. With all that in mind I don't think we did anything to hurt their economy: they did it to themselves in many ways.

The Chavistas have, as you noted, also enviscerated Venezuelan steel production and just about every other sector of the economy from farming to the distribution of consumer goods. They have huge forest reserves and they import their toilet paper!

Restore democracy and free markets to Venezuela and the country will quickly thrive. Not much hope now though of wresting power from the hands of the corrupt socialists who livel well on the backs of the people they promise to liberate. while stealing from the government and increasingly, as it appears, profiting from the drug trade.
 

Related Topics

After Hugo Chavez -? - Discussion by edgarblythe
Was Hugo Chavez a Good Leader? - Question by Advocate
Hugo Chavez is Dead - Discussion by Butrflynet
Venezuela Watch - Discussion by blatham
 
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/31/2020 at 01:54:48