Husband pushes son too hard

Although I'm not the greatest person to ask about parenting issues, I feel that you're in the right, I.L. Ridiculing does nothing for a child's development; it certainly will not make the child develop faster than he is meant to. He will learn in time, and that is that. Perhaps, if you showed the effect that such behaviour would have on your child's perception of him, he might be more willing to listen to the rest of your arguments; yet, he sounds stubborn, so you are up for a fight...

He's very stubborn and likes to think of himself as old fashioned (woman does what man says no question!). He's only like that on certain issues but it's enough to make me crazy. And of course I can't talk to any family because if it ever got back to him that I let our "dirty laundry" out especially to family it would send him over the edge.
My son has made comments before about "daddy's not nice" or "daddy yells to much" and my husband again blames me, I make him be the bad guy that's why our son says those things!!

My first reaction was, 'Oh, dear.' How long have you been married? To move toward conclusion, I think that we all here on this thread need to consider your answers a two-point test:

1- what would you tell him, if there were no repercussions?

2- what do you think could get him to listen to you?

Married 6 years, together 8. SOME of his "issues" I knew but when we had kids...oh boy!
If there were no repercussions? I think I would tell him that his son will be a "man" even if he can be patient with him on certain things, he doesn't have to try to make him tougher, he's all boy! And to NEVER compare him or me to anyone else ever again! I would also try to set up counseling for him (and me), but THAT will NEVER happen.
I really don't know what it would take to get him to listen, if I left with the kids he would be worse!! That subject was already discussed by him. He's so into this "I am man, I work and provide for my family and that is all I must do ,everything else is a bonus. "

I'm sorry but...

Your husband is emotionally abusive to you and to your son.

It is unlikely he will change.

You know what you need to do.

If it helps, my daughter was 3 and a half before she was potty trained. She is very stubborn and obviously knew how to use the potty, but wanted to do it on her terms. Once we let up a little she decided one day that she wanted to wear her pretty underwear. From that day forward she used the potty all the time.

Maybe it would help if you either showed your husband some research or articles on potty training. Then it is not you saying this is the way, but some one with more experience. Or suggest speaking with the baby's doctor. Maybe both of you calling and discussing some suggestions. Again that way it is coming from a reliable source (not that you are not) and some one who is not so emotionally vested. A counselor may even be appropriate - make it sound like it is the child that needs the counselor and he may not take it so personally.

irishlady--

First:



You cannot control what your son thinks--let alone what he will think. This is an impossibility, so wipe that project off your list.

Second:

Believe it or not, you and your son are fortunate that his father does take an interest. Fathers are not mothers--but all the same, they are equally valuable parents.

Third:

There is probably a connection between the beer and the belittling. My hunch is that the alcohol allows all of your husband's insecurities--the insecurities that every He Man denies exist--rise to the surface.

He may well be jealous of his son for having the understanding mother that he never had. You write "kids". I assume the second child is a girl. Is she older or younger? Has sibling rivalry started there yet?
You can't use logic with an insecure child, even if that "child" is a parent and breadwinner. All that works is love. One of the difficult Facts of Life is that the more obnoxious a child is being at the moment, the more that child needs love and ego bolstering.

Try giving your husband all the admiration and praise that you can muster--particularly before he starts drinking. You can catch many more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.

Fourth:

Do not discuss your husband with your son. If your son says, "Daddy's not nice," explain that Daddy is looking forward to a toilet trained son who can go places and do things. "Daddy yells"? Explain that messy pants make Daddy's mad--and Daddy is entitled to his reactions.

Do not get in the middle of this father-son belittling. Of course you're feeling crazed. Any woman who puts herself in the middle between two strong-willed males that she loves is driving herself insane.

You can't control either one of them--so get out of the middle. As long as you are compensating for your husband's Tuff Guy approach, the meaner and tougher he's going to be. The more you sympathize with your three-year-old "baby" the more babyish he's going to be. Women don't belong in the middle. Let little boys and big boys work it out without you.

Good luck.

Tape him while he is berating the child - video or tape recorder. Letting him listen to it later, when he is sober or calmer, may open his eyes to how he is really behaving.

We all think we are right in how we do things but it has often been embarassing when people are caught doing or saying something that at the time they felt righteous about but later look or sound plain silly or wrong.

It is obviously not going to be enough to take your word that his behavior is wrong. If you look/listen to the tape later together, ask him is this how he wants to be as a parent?

If he still insists that he is right or gets angry at you for making the tape, ask him to explain to you why.

Noddy, your advice is very helpful! No one has really helped me understand his points, which is what I really wanted to do. I always feel like I have to "make things better" and hate to see my little boy cry, I guess I think it will scar him even though he does light up when he gets to do things with his daddy. Maybe it hurts me more.
We do have a little girl (6 months old) and my son tells everyone it's his baby. I had asked for advice about a month ago on the potty training and was given the advice then to make more time for him due to the change even though he seems well adjusted. That's helped I just had to get this off my chest about his daddy. I know how lucky I am to have a devoted daddy it's just hard dealing with different opinions when it comes to your child even if (sometime especially if) they come from the other partner. Thanks for giving me a different perspective to look at it. Any advice on how to react when he comes to me when his daddy gets on him? How do I handle the tears?
Heeven, that might help too. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

From what you said in the following post:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=762557#762557

Plus what you've said in this thread, it seems to me that your husband is generally abusive to his family. Without some work with a therapist, I doubt it will get better. Cutting out the drinking might work, it apparently did in the case of my father-in-law.

Please describe how your husband is a 'devoted daddy'. It might offer some perspective for us.

When I say he is a devoted daddy I mean he does care about his children and wants them to have the best. He does interact with them, playing and just taking up time with them. But with our little boy he seems to have some expectations of how he wants things done that I don't agree with. As I said before he's not like this all the time but it worries me that it happens period. That's the part that really makes me crazy... you never know what might happen next to set him off. He can be in best mood and if you do something he sees as stupid he will let you know and usually in a hurtful manner. I am a person that's easy to cry and also has to talk things "in the ground" so maybe I push his buttons. Our biggest issues are our son and our love life. We both have said we feel we're taking each other for granted and he's even told me that since I spend so much time with kids he'd like for his opinion on things to go without question, but I have a problem when I feel like it could be done in a different manner. No yelling or belittleing either one of us. But when I say anything I'm being a b**** and making more out of it trying to start a fight.

This is not an appropriate attitude for a supposedly "mature" adult. I'm sorry you're having to raise three children, irishlady.

Sure, I'd like for my opinions to go without question, too! I'd also like to have a million dollars and be able to fly like a bird. Who does he think he is?!

irishlady--

Thanks for the kind words.

Now, grit your teeth and harden your heart. Your son likes having you in the middle whenever Daddy gets demanding. Clever little three-year-old, isn't he? He knows that you are always good for sympathy; that your on "his" side; that his tears break your heart.

Maybe one reason he has his rivalry for his sister under control right now (but wait until she starts crawling) is that already fought some battles with Daddy for your Very Bestest, Specialest Love--and won.

As for the tears, hand him a tissue and tell him to blow his nose. Then ask him, "Do I look like your daddy?"

Explain again, Daddies are Daddies and Mommies are Mommies. Point out all the things he likes to do with Daddy. Build your husband up, don't tear him down in his son's eyes. You are very sorry that he is crying. You are very sorry he made Daddy mad. Put the cause-and-effect burden on your son, not your husband.

You've cooperated thus far in this triangle--and your husband feels left out. You're sittting in the middle feeling crazy. The three-year-old is cracking the whip. Get out of the middle. How would you like it, if your husband sympathized with your son's tears every time you scolded your son?

Can you enlist your husband's cooperation for some wonderful, binding, father-son, male lodge moments when they pee together in the toilet or behind a bush or write their names in the snow? Obviously this is not an activity that Mommies can manage. Turn some of the toilet training into guy time.

Good luck.

I have another question, Noddy or anyone. What can I do when daddy expects me to treat the subject like he does? He even blames me by saying if I got on him harder he would be trained by now? I don't think it's fair for him to think I should treat things like he does. I know some compromises have to be made but should I let it go so far as to doing something I don't feel is right. It's almost like he wants me be in the middle but only on his side.

I have the feeling that the potty training thing is not the only issue over which the daddy berates the son. Right now, it's the big issue. When potty training is done, it'll be something else.

But, I will offer some potty training advice:

My DD (29 months) likes to watch the video 'Once Upon a Potty'. We have the DVD, and it has 2 parts: the potty story for the child and a brief potty training information bit from a pediatrician for the parents. Both would be great for your situation. There's a girl version and a boy version. They had the boy version at our local Blockbuster, but not the girl version, so I went ahead and bought a copy of our own.

I tried to get my DD to train earlier, but it was really up to her and her body to be ready. I'd get her to sit on the potty, but nothing would happen. I once even offered her a chocolate kiss if she would pee on the pot and boy did she try! She looked at herself down there and said 'Come out!', but it didn't happen. She started using the potty for pee last week and does it pretty consistently now. But she won't do #2. I hear that's pretty common.

Irish Lady --
He drinks then he belittles your son. Are you sure your husband doesn't also hit the child?

Your husband is doing a bad thing to use belittling labels against your son. I believe Heeven is right -- you should tape his nasty comments. Perhaps if he hears himself he'll knock it off, but some men are just jerks. You need that tape because someday it will come in handy... maybe in court. I just hope he doesn't try and slap you or wreck the tape if you try to tape him. With that in hand, if you decide to leave this guy, he would never get full custody. I imagine you feel trapped or think the world of him or both.

I've known many fathers and I can tell you... a normal man does not belittle his child. Your husband is over-compensating for some fault that he sees in himself. He is going to make his son hate and fear him and then repeat this behavior with your grandchildren. Is THAT what you want?

I do not agree with Noddy that a three-year-old is to blame for being the butt of these belittling comments. Your son is honestly confused by his father's cruel behavior.

I've also been friends with many women who have good relationships with their husbands. None of those men would say the things you say your husband says. Your man is out-of-control. I suspect you've allowed him to think he is God's gift to the world. Sadly, that is a huge mistake, especially with a jerk. You think if you're nice, he'll be nicer, but it doesn't work that way.

He shouldn't get to make all the decisions, he doesn't get to tell you how to treat your son, and he is wicked to treat your son badly. You are writing to anonymous people here and why? Because you know in your heart that you are in a bad situation.

Y'know, in my community we had a well-respected police chief who controlled his wife... didn't allow her to discuss things outside the marriage because it was disrespectful to him, etc. It was ugly and hopefully lots worse than your situation. Well, just over a year ago, he killed her in the parking lot of the shopping center nearby. It was in full view of the kids. Then they saw him kill his own damned self.

I have no respect for men who try to tell their wives how to think and I truly detest men who mistreat their kids. Good men don't act like this.

You're in a bad situation and it is not likely to get better. It's almost impossible to get a man like this to change. He thinks he's in the right.

Good Luck, Irish Lady, 'cause you're going to need it.

irishlady--

I'm assuming that your husband's criticism is within "normal" limits. I'm not advocating letting your son be abused.

As for your question: Tell your husband that Mommies are not Daddies--but both are needed. Mommies are emotionally geared to nurture. Daddies are more interested in results. If the two of you have slightly different approaches to problems, this means that your kids are going to grow up knowing there is more than one way to handle a situation.

P.S.

People--I'm assuming that irishlady is more interested in improving the situation than in ending the marriage.

irishlady, I have to ask, just how much does your husband drink? You say "a few beers" but do you actually know if that's it? His behaviour is reflective of alcoholism (vicious abusive tendencies, even if only verbal, alienating those close to him, including the children). I'm certain his upbringing has a lot to do with the way he acts, but drinking would definitely exacerbate the problems he has.

Bromeliad has a great idea! I have the same video and the book. My five year old still wants me to read her that book. The video is great as bromeliad said and the bonus, if your husband will watch it is the section for parents. There the pediatrician gives guidance for the parents - there is your educated, experienced unbiased point of view. Maybe he can convince your husband without you being the one to "criticize" him.