FUTILITY

In a public forum you are going to meet people you consider creeps. In a public forum you are going to meet people who consider you a creep . Often they will be the same people. (Please check the dictionary before you complain about my use of the word "public".)

This is the problem with interacting with people who have different viewpoints than yours.

I don't think your habit of making personal attacks against people you disagree with is very productive.

Probably a little bit out of boredom, but also the somewhat sad state affairs in which there isn't much of any other meaningful debate occurring on A2K. We have a few stray threads about Mars Rovers and Kuiper Objects and such, but they aren't usually very active since they are progressing at the (relatively slow) pace of real science.

The other nice thing about a Creation/Evolution debate (at least if you're on the Evolution side) is that you don't have to think very hard to win the debate. Biological evolution along with the surrounding mountain of science which supports it has been demonstrated and proven for over a century now. So the debate always boils down to simply identifying the opponent's particular error in understanding some aspect of science. So these aren't really debates, they are simply analysis of arguments and recitations of known facts.

A true debate would be one in which there is actually something to debate, something which is somewhat subjective and balanced. That would take a lot more time and thought. And would only be worth it if the subject was something interesting.

Beyond that, there might be a little bit of... "The only thing necessary for the triumph of ignorance is for knowledgeable men to say nothing" (a small twist on an old saw).

Ha.

But there are interesting things to debate, and these things are being debated by intelligent people outside of Able2Know. The problem is that and difference of opinion is being aggressively attacked on able2know by people who want to stamp out differing viewpoints.

I think creationism is foolish given the current state of scientific knowledge, but I have no problem either saying so respectfully (without personal attacks) or just skipping out of the discussion.

But many people on Able2Know choose personal attacks over either respectful disagreement or choosing not to engage. That is why it is difficult to find interesting thoughtful discussions on important topics... they drowned out by people hurling insults.

Look at Setanta's initial post on this thread (which is a perfect example). In this one post, Setanta calls the people who he disagrees with "creeps", "idiots", "pig-headed", "lame", "stupid", "trolls" and "loons".

Setanta could just ignore the people who he feels are beneath him, but he doesn't. He feels the need to trash them publicly, shut down their opinions and convince everyone else to do the same. That is the point of this thread.

I don't support this.

That's fine Max. You obviously have your own agenda with regard to this thread. But I only wanted to respond to the question which Setanta posed (which I included in my reply).

Yes Rosborne, I have an agenda. I speak for the creeps (and all the people whose opinions Setanta and friends want to drown out).

There is an in crowd on Able2Know that Setanta speaks for. The outsiders deserve to have a voice too.

[With tongue in cheek] What's the matter with you? Why aren't you more "other directed," needing peoples' opinions to mirror your opinion, to have a good level of self-esteem. You do know that this is a possible main reason for anti-Semitism. Jews are so "inner directed," not needing other people to mirror their own opinions, to have a decent level of self-esteem. O.K., you're not Jewish. An old line WASP perhaps?

Max's agenda is based on a long-lasting and irrational antipathy. (It certainly has nothing to do with evolution.) Of course people who admire Hitler are creeps. Given that there is absolutely no historical foundation for the claim, those who purport that Rommel said he could conquer the world with two divisions of Australians are loons. In one of the current attack on evolution threads (although that was not the author's intent), one of the new creationist members keeps speaking of humans descending from apes--and even acknowledges that those who study evolution don't claim that humans are descended from apes. Yet he (?) continues to refer to humans being descended from apes--i call that pig-headed stupidity, and consider no apology necessary.

Mas trashed two threads i started in praise of women, and set up one straw man argument after the other. So he has developed a deep an abiding antipathy for being told his position was idiotic. He also trashed a thread i started about speed limits, claiming people who abide by speed limit laws endanger him! He then came up with a claim which is made hilariously idiotic by the surreal math with which he attempted to make his point. He touts himself as a scientist. I cannot believe he got a degree in physics with math that lame.

This thread is not about Max and his obsessive antipathy. I will not take any further notice of him, and i advise that no one else do so either. But i do get quite a bit of amusement out of the "clique" claim that Max and other malcontents here make.

Thank you Setanta, that is exactly the point. If you can trash me personally enough... going through a list of what you consider to be my previous transgression, then you don't have to listen to my points, answer my questions or respond to my reasoning.

Once you have trashed me personally every time we interact you can just respond with times you disagreed with me in the past. Of course, there are two sides to every disagreement we had... I don't feel I trashed those threads.. I merely expressed my opinion. Nor do I feel that these threads were "praising women". But again, I respect your right to disagree with me and you can express your opinion the same I as can.

It is very convenient to divide the entire Able2know community into two groups... the in-crowd and the out-crowd, the creeps and the non-creeps. I don't think it is very productive. It means that you close your mind to other ideas simply because of your personal feelings toward the people who are expressing them.

The name calling is really the problem. When you attack people personally, rather than respond to ideas, then reasonable discussion becomes impossible.

My objection is not that you hold certain people in such disdain... the real problem is that you are telling everyone else to ostracize certain members for their beliefs. Why not just form your own opinions and ignore the people who you dislike?

Once you try to turn everyone else against them, you cross a line into bullying. I don't support that.

I only read Rosbourne, FBM, farmerman and the others on evolution threads. The creationists don't get read by me. I use the same rule on political threads. In general, I said what I have to say on my recent thread on trolls. I am frequently off the mark in what I post and don't mind being corrected, which is not the same thing.

This in crowd and out crowd talk always gets brought up in threads like this. Utter bullshit.

Do you agree with Setanta's division Able2know into "creeps" and "non-creeps"?

Of course, the definition of who goes on the "creeps" list is subjection. I bet your "creeps" list matches up pretty well with Setanta's...

I have noticed a paucity of light-hearted humor on A2K, unless it comes from a select few people. I find the humor they promulgate sort of like reading the funnies in old editions of newspapers of yesteryear. You remember, The Katz and Jammer Kids, for example.

So, anyone that wants to lighten the seriousness of a thread is given a negative moniker, to say the least. I do not find this with the women posters. I do think alpha male habits don't necessarily mellow with age.

By way, i want to thank Roswell for what appears to have been a candidly honest response. I know i had said i would probably not respond, but the thread is getting trolled already, so i thought i bring out the response which was actually on topic.

Generally I respond to a post that restates what I consider a long-discredited position because I am either interested in the subject and just plain enjoy talking about it, passionate about defending my position on the subject, or both at once.

I'm a particularly lazy person. If I am not interested enough, I probably won't reply to a post even if I am convinced it is wrong, simply out of sheer apathy.


I seem to have an addiction to arguing about the A-bombings of Japan. To me such an argument is like crack to a crack addict. I could spend all day every day responding in excruciating detail to JTT cut-and-pasting long-winded denunciations of the A-bombings by anti-war extremists.

That's actually what drew me to a2k. My first year on a2k was spent entirely in the Hiroshima thread. I only wandered out of the thread once I had exhausted the topic with everyone who was in the thread.

I'm already shivering in anticipation for this August. Given the way the media is covering the anniversary of Trinity, it's going to be a good year for A-bomb arguments. I'm probably going to give in and make a fake Facebook account just so I can fall on the Lefties at Huffington Post like a ton of bricks (can't post there anymore without a Facebook account).

I feel qualified to deliver some up to date information from the research in a limited few fields. If it happens to counter a point that someone has made regarding the "culture wars" side of evolution, fine.
I dont distinguish "creeps or dummy heads" although I pften call someone a name or two.

I , sooner or later, will get bored with the silliness and poor reasoning of a few, and those Ill just dump and forget about the whole thred. The "Casino ..." thread is just such a one.

However, I will not miss the anti-science threads by gungasnake, mostly because they are so unique in their "logic"

I never take suggestions or orders from anyone who says that they speak for me though. What All of us should do is mind our own typewriter and not GAS about what others opine. That way we can all get in our licks , or ignore (if we feel thus).

Im gonna get it through gunga's skull that Carbon 14 does NOT work for fossils WE KNOW are more than 60 to 75 k years old (MAX). When he reported that 67 million year old dinosaur fossils are really 20000 years old (and the rocks surrounding and containing the fossils date repeatedly from 66 to 68 million years, something is definitely wrong with using C14. (Although I gotta admit, I love it when hes intractable ,I always assume hes from a Greek or Italian lineage -where being wrong is considered a feminine trait)

what are the "lefties" saying about the A bomb??

I come from a side that says weve fucked up the US countryside at so many sites making the damn things and nobody" apologized to anyone for that.

I always assumed your name came from a past job association at Y-12

or is oralloy a calutron girl?