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Death Penalty

 
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 08:37 pm
tcis wrote:
I just finished reading a study that made the same claim (above).

Those of you out there who are for the death penalty...how can we live with that discrepancy while sending people to their death?


tcis, i dont really care if 11 times more black people get executed...or 11 tims more white people...the numbers aren't supposed to be even.. the only thing that is supposed to be even is that everyone gets treated equally based on what they did.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 08:40 pm
Blacks get convicted on faulty eveidence more frequently that many of us want to believe. I have read the statistics on this, but in the past. I don't intend to search a link.
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 08:41 pm
extra medium wrote:
tcis wrote:
"The odds of a death sentence in cases in which blacks killed whites were as much as 11 times higher than the capital murder of a black by a white."


I just finished reading a study that made the same claim (above).

Those of you out there who are for the death penalty...how can we live with that discrepancy while sending people to their death?


I am still somewhat neutral on the issue, but I'll still respond: Your statistic is floating in space.

The statistic is too raw. As (I believe Fishin') pointed out, the statistic holds true even with black judges and juries. A fair conclusion would be that the color of their skin was relevant for a different reason than racism. Perhaps finacial reasons, I would assume that african americans are more likely to come from financially strained backgrounds, while this may have initiated because of racism it is not fuelled by racism. To elaborate, african americans were forced into worse jobs because of racism, then they had children, naturally their children were poor, their children have children and so on. Eventually racism fades (not entirely, but...) and although many african americans gain prestige and fortune, they are certainly not favored to.

Blah, blah, blah... I'm rambling now.
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 09:03 pm
stuh505 wrote:
tcis, i dont really care if 11 times more black people get executed...or 11 tims more white people...the numbers aren't supposed to be even.. the only thing that is supposed to be even is that everyone gets treated equally based on what they did.



Stuh,

I agree: treated equally based on what they did. But this stat is saying what they did was equal (murder), yet the rate of death penalty imposed was not equal. Thus, everyone was not treated equally based on what they did.

I would never really expect to see precisely equal treatment.
I can see 2X or 3X difference...but 11X? Same crime?
Unacceptable. Something is not right there.
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 09:05 pm
But we've also heard statistics to the contrary. WHo is to be believed? What was your source, Extra? VERY FEW sources for statistics are accurate.
0 Replies
 
tcis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 09:11 pm
I'll list the source again:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/rightsforall/dp/race/race-1.html#Statistical

"In 1998, the Presidential Advisory Board on Race recognised that these discrepancies in the incarceration rate could not be explained solely by the higher crime rates in ethnic communities:
'These disparities are probably due in part to underlying disparities in criminal behavior. But evidence shows that these disparities also are due in part to discrimination in the administration of justice and to policies and practices that have an unjustified disparate impact on minorities and people of color.'

"Of the 500 prisoners executed between 1977 and end of 1998, 81.80 per cent were convicted of the murder of a white, even though blacks and whites are the victims of homicide in almost equal numbers nationwide. In 1972, the US Supreme Court ruled that the administration of the death penalty was unacceptably arbitrary and declared all existing state statutes to be unconstitutional."

***

SC,

Okay, well if we're saying statistics and numbers are unreliable, that destroys the the basis of my debate. Nevermind. Lets just do whatever the pro-death penalty folks think feels good.

We don't need things like DNA testing, fingerprints, and counting jurors votes, either. That includes too many statistics and numbers. Cool
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 09:52 pm
tcis, I didn't say your statistics were inaccurate. But we have two conflicting statistics, and therefor at least one must be inaccurate, even if it's true. For example, one of the statistics might be outdated.
0 Replies
 
limbodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 10:14 pm
stuh505 wrote:
limbodog wrote:
I'd rather risk supporting a murderer in prison 'till he dies of old age than executing a guy who happened to be close enough in appearance that an eyewitness couldn't tell the difference.


yes you are the third one to bring this up...but I don't see how people think it is a considerable possibility for any mis-accused prisoners to be set free. when the evidence was already presented, and DNA evidence already existed, when the case is done...what could possibly cause the case to get re-examined?


What indeed? I suppose if it were that obvious than the chances of it being overlooked the first time around would be next to nil.

But then, that same argument was just as valid *before* DNA testing was available.
0 Replies
 
john-nyc
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 06:45 am
limbodog wrote:
stuh505 wrote:
limbodog wrote:
I'd rather risk supporting a murderer in prison 'till he dies of old age than executing a guy who happened to be close enough in appearance that an eyewitness couldn't tell the difference.


yes you are the third one to bring this up...but I don't see how people think it is a considerable possibility for any mis-accused prisoners to be set free. when the evidence was already presented, and DNA evidence already existed, when the case is done...what could possibly cause the case to get re-examined?


What indeed? I suppose if it were that obvious than the chances of it being overlooked the first time around would be next to nil.

But then, that same argument was just as valid *before* DNA testing was available.


An accuser may recant their testimony; a witness may do the same; it may come to light that prosecutors withheld exculpatory evidence, and/or; some scientific advancement, now unknown, may serve to demonstrate innocence.
0 Replies
 
limbodog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 07:24 am
Might turn out the court appointed defense attourney only met his client 1/2 hour before the trial began. (apparently that's common)
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 05:17 am
The Scot Peterson trial keeps exposing tricks and lies by prosecution. If Peterson were black no one would have noticed.
0 Replies
 
Charli
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 07:10 pm
You might be interested in this program.
You might be interested in this program. Fom today's email delivery:[/color]

Quote:
ABOLITION FLASHCARD
Amnesty International USA
Program to Abolish the Death Penalty (PADP)
July 2004

Watch a New Documentary on the Death Penalty

July 30, 8 PM (Eastern Standard Time)
NBC's Dateline

"Can capital punishment be justified in a criminal justice system so fraught with error that in Illinois, 13 of 25 inmates slated for execution were discovered to be innocent?"

This was exactly the question that former Illinois Governor George Ryan faced in the final days of his term as he decided whether to let 167 people live or die. And it is the question that America will face on July 30 when "Deadline," a riveting new documentary from Big Mouth Productions, has its national television premiere in a special two-hour edition of NBC's Dateline at 8 pm (Eastern Standard Time).

"Deadline" explores two of the most significant, yet unexamined, events in the history of American capital punishment:

-- the abolition of the death penalty in 1972
-- the momentous debate in Illinois in 2002-2003 over clemency for all of the state's death row inmates.

The film reveals the inner workings of these events and leads to profound questions on America's approach to crime and punishment.

It is unprecedented for a film like this to get such a large, diverse audience, which makes it extremely important for viewers to tune in and show the network just how hungry the American public is for media that forces us to think critically. Amnesty International USA's Program to Abolish the Death Penalty has been working with the outreach coordinator to make sure that "Deadline" reaches as many people as possible, as part of our mission to educate the American public about the fatal flaws in the death penalty system.

Invite your friends, family and community members to attend a Viewing Party for Deadline's NBC broadcast on July 30th at 8pm. Help spread the word and promote the discussion of America's criminal justice system and the death penalty!

If you would like to host a Deadline Viewing Party, please fill out the information below and send it to [email protected]. They will then send you a "How To Throw A Viewing Party Guide" and, on the day of the broadcast, a "Deadline Discussion Guide."

You can also find information on how to organize an event or lead a film discussion on the Amnesty International USA website at:

http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/ctt.asp?u=660077&l=9352

To learn more about the film, log onto the website at:

http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/ctt.asp?u=660077&l=9353
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 08:09 am
If the facts do not fit, you must acquit.
0 Replies
 
 

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