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What is the origin of the he'll fire teaching?

 
 
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2021 03:13 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
2) There is eternal punishment in Hell for people who don't believe in God and accept Jesus. For them there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


All have sinned and all must die once, which is the death of the body, the physical womb in which 'YOU' the invisible mind/spirit that had developed within that womb.

After the first death, 'YOU' the disembodied mind=spirit. which is the potential child of God, (For flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God) goes off into judgement.

The spirits of the righteous inherit everlasting Life, while the spirits of the unrepentant wicked, are cast back into the refining fires of physical life once again, in the eternal process of rebirths, or reincarnation, where the mind that is 'YOU" is divided from the soul of the eternal, and that portion of God's soul which pervades the entire universe animating all that He has become, is given a new Body in which to develop a new Spirit=mind.

I will give to them a new heart=body, and a new spirit=mind.

But the disembodied minds of the unrepentant wicked, will have ceased to exist, for the eternal punishment is the second death, the death of your mind, from which there is no return, eternal and everlasting oblivion and non existence.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2021 06:29 am
@The Anointed,
Oversimplification.

The Bible ends this here, but we have three natures. Most Christians who make this model put it as Body, Soul, Spirit but I think that's a bad understanding. I say Body, Spirit, Soul. The reason why in stories like Faust, the demons or whatever are always trying to tak human souls, they're taking it because as soul is the "self" of God, the immortal essence of piece of the Holy Spirit. Demons are "spirits" as the word translates. They have no souls.
So most passages in the Bible that talk about the soul being destroyed should be translated as "spirit." We have a body (that which sees the physical world), a spirit (that which lives and feels as an individual), and a soul (defined as "self" which is why it gets put before the spirit, but this is God's self, not ours, our chunk of immortality). Nothing, not evsn a lake of fire designed to destroy angels can destroy the soul, because that would imply God is destroying his own Holy Spirit (not happening).

We have a first death and a second death, but no third death. You see, a lake of fire burns body and spirit together, extraxpcting the soul. There is no "you" anymore, only God's self, the Holy spirit. The Holy Spirit is able to make a spirit and body around itself, or be part of God and live without a body or spirit.

Implications? Well it means the Buddhists/Hindus/etc are right, technically, but you don't want to go this way. Such souls are reborn with no memory and expected to repeat the course. Last time you were a big buff manly lumberjack, who didn't get the lessons God taught even to the last part of the last days, you start as an innocent girl who likes dolls and ponies, and one day might turn her love of cute things instead to her worship and love of God. It also means passages abour demons, and especially two passages in particular (Jesus's talk of a spirit getting exorcised but the body being empty and later being possessed again, and the passage about Saul losing the spirit of the Lord and being possessed by an evil spirit). Spirits are corruptible, you can be overtaken by an evil spirit or live in "despair" which seems to be related to the word "dispirited". Or God can toss your body and spirit into the fire. The second death. Souls are incorruptible, they cannot be affected by the physical world, and cannot be changed by any thought or action or belief we might have, so they cannot die.

When we burn, there is never "nothing left". I've watched fires as a farmer. There is always ash that can be used for other things (compost, soap, even salts in some cases). What there is, is nothing left of the old. But this ash can nurture something new.
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2021 10:36 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
We have a first death and a second death, but no third death.


The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul, [The Animating life force, which pervades the entire universal body activating the body itself ] to which soul all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and pre-human has been gathered in its evolution to become ‘WHO YOU ARE’, and that gathering of parental spirits, which is the evolving ‘SON OF MAN,’ dwells behind the veil of the flesh to the inner most sanctuary of its temporary earthly tabernacle or tent, which is your physical body, as it awaits the creation of its glorious temple of incorruptible Light. [THE SON OF MAN] who stands on the highest and final rung of the ladder of evolution in this period of universal activity.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and “YOU” who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality or “CONTROLLING GODHEAD” to that body.”

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind The veil,
I lifted up my hands to find A lamp amid the Darkness;
and I heard, As from Without----
“The Me within Thee is blind.”----- By Omar Khayyam.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body of “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU, the mind or spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force or soul, which returns to ‘THE GREAT THOUGHT,’ [The collective consciousness of all that exists] from which it will be resurrected in this cycle, or the next cycle of universal activity.

Every living thing within this apparent boundless cosmos, are merely information gatherers for the eternal energy, that has neither beginning or end, which eternal energy manifests itself as this living universe and is all that exists and is, ’The Great Thought,’ the collective consciousness of all that exists.

At any given point in time, you are no more than inches away from a spider, fly, ant, or any other of the many information gatherers of the eternal, who is all that exists.

Jeremiah 23: 23-24; “I am a God who is everywhere and not in one place only. No one can hide where I cannot see him. Do you not know that I am everywhere in heaven and on earth?"

He has eyes and ears everywhere throughout the universe that is he.

The Second death, which is the eternal punishment for the unrepentant wicked spirits, is when those spirits are cast back into the refining fires of physical life once again, and the spirit=mind is divided from the Soul, which emptied soul is then given a new body into which a new spirit will develop, in the endless cycles of rebirths, or reincarnations.

But the MIND that is YOU will have ceased to exist everlastingly, the eternal punishment.

bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2021 11:13 pm
@The Anointed,
While I don't necessarily agree with everything year said, the last bit is mostly accurate. I say mostly because this isn't an endless cycle.

As in Buddhism/Hinduism, the goal is to end the cycle. In Christianity, this means redemption, being able to obey God and become saved. As God explicitly wants everyone to be saved, the damned are cast as in a forge. The forge melts all that enters it into molten, losing it its original shape. The body and spirit is reforged again and again, but God's intention is that all be saved.

What is the endgame? The Bride of Christ. God says "It is not good for Man to be alone. I will make him a partner." But what the Bible doesn't tell is is that this grand experiment clearly has a purpose, and the fact the God said everything but this was good makes it somewhat clear. God created us because he was alone for an eternity, and we are his Savior (from endless isolation) as well as the opposite.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2021 01:24 am
The point being that I categorically reject the idea of God around punishing people... but hateful people still hear it as judgement because they are stuck in a selfish mindset (and by selfish, I don't mean wanting to keep their own stuff; I mean declaring that people are selfish while they try to force others to give what they have).

God is not here to sentence. This is repeatedly thought by people because of a strong delusion. In fact, it is probably possible that while I try to explain unity, your duality consciousness replaces this with something harsh supposedly being said by me. Our brains are broken. That's a key part of being human.

The idea of hellfire punishment comes from this insane portion of the brain.


The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2021 03:09 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
The point being that I categorically reject the idea of God around punishing people


So, you are confessing to all, that you reject the words of the Lord as revealed in the Holy Scriptures, through his prophets, which include the Man Jesus, of who the Lord said to Moses in Deuteronomy, 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in the Good News Catholic Study Edition of the Bible, Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people. You are to obey everything that he tells you to do. Anyone who does not obey that prophet shall be separated from God's people and destroyed.’

And it is your God given right to reject the God of Abraham, and his chosen heir and successor Jesus, the son of Mary and her half-brother Joseph, who were both sired by Heli, by different mothers.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2021 08:11 am
@The Anointed,
I reject this, because "God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son to the end that all who believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." You are quoting from the law.

But it is God's intention that the law be satisfied through Jesus. Not for sacrifice after sacrifice, but one sacrifice for all.

Quote:
20I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God. For if righteousness comes through the law, Christ died for nothing.


Yet I do not reject God. I reject the idea that God wants to toss us into Hell for not following laws. Too many "Christians" conflate Allah ( Satan) for God. Allah (Satan) wants to accuse us, and he does so even through ministers and angels of light.

The Bible doesn't so much as use the word Hell. But the Quran surely does!
Wikipedia wrote:
The Quran uses a number of different terms and phrases to refer to hell. Al-nar (the fire) is used 125 times, jahannam 77 times, jaheem (blazing flames) 26 times. One collection of Quranic descriptions of hell include "rather specific indications of the tortures of the Fire": flames that crackle and roar; fierce, boiling waters, scorching wind, and black smoke, roaring and boiling as if it would burst with rage. Its wretched inhabitants sigh and wail, their scorched skins are constantly exchanged for new ones so that they can taste the torment anew, drink festering water and though death appears on all sides they cannot die. They are linked together in chains of 70 cubits, wearing pitch for clothing and fire on their faces have boiling water that will be poured over their heads, melting their insides as well as their skins, and hooks of iron to drag them back should they try to escape, their remorseful admissions of wrongdoing and pleading for forgiveness are in vain.

The description of Jahannam as a place of blazing fire appears in almost every verse in the Quran describing hell. Jahannam is described as being located below heaven, having seven gates, each for a specific group or at least a different "portion" or "party" of sinners. The Quran also mentions wrongdoers having "degrees (or ranks) according to their deeds" which some scholars believe refers to the seven gates. The one mention of levels of hell is that hypocrites will be found in its very bottom.

The Quran mentions three different sources of food in hell:
- Ḍari‘, a dry desert plant that is full of thorns and fails to relieve hunger or sustain a person (Q88:6);
- ghislin, which is only mentioned once (in Q69:36, which states that it is the only nourishment in hell);
- zaqqum is mentioned three times.

Zaqqum btw is some big tree with a head-shaped fruit that gives you serious acid.

Meanwhile, back at Christianity.
Quote:
Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!


And what is the Gospel of Christ but that Christ died for our sins. Therefore there is no third death. However much you die body and soul, I cannot believe God will say "This is the last time." But each incarnation carries with it the burdens of life. It will only be the last time when we get our **** together and save that wedding date.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2021 08:37 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Damn, I did it too!

That is how much there is persistent spirit ->soul confusion. "However much you die body and spirit."
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2021 06:31 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
I reject this, because "God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son to the end that all who believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life."


"All who believe in Him" being the operative words.

John 12: 44; Jesus cried out, "The one who believes in me believes not in me, but in 'HIM' who sent me.

These were the word of Lord God our saviour, the only begotten son of God the Father.

Joh 5: 24; “I assure you: Anyone who hears 'MY WORD' and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life."

Jesus spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by the Lord God our saviour, who filled him with his spirit on the day he was baptised, and the spirit descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are My Son, (My chosen heir, and successor to my throne) 'THIS DAY' I have begotten thee.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; I will raise them up a Prophet from among their own people, like unto thee, and will put ‘MY WORDS’ in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto ‘MY WORDS’ which he shall speak in ‘MY NAME’, I will surely Punish.

It was the only begotten 'SON OF GOD' who is equal to the Father in every way, who mentally descended from his heights in time and was chosen by Abraham as his God, and it was He who filled the man Jesus with his spirit= His WORDS.

Hebrews 10: 5- For this reason, when 'The Anointed One; was about to come into the world, he said to God: “You do not want sacrifices and offerings,
but you have prepared a body for me. (That body through which the invisible Son of God, could reveal himself to the world was the earthly body of the Man Jesus)

You are not pleased with animals burnt whole on the altar or with sacrifices to take away sins.

Then I said, ‘Here I am, to do your will, O God, just as it is written of me in the book of the Law.’ ”

The word “CHRIST” means “The Anointed One.” Enoch was the one anointed by the Most-High in the creation, ‘The Lord of Creatures,’ as his Heir and successor, (The Son of Man) The only begotten son of God, who is Lord of spirits.

Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

It was the 365 day old 'ANOINTED ONE", who filled the man Jesus with his spirit.

It was He who abandoned his chosen successor on the Cross, as ‘Jesus,’ gave up the spirit crying, “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me.

It was He who can never actually die, who then ceased to be an individual entity by releasing all the spirits who had been gathered to him, whose graves were then opened, and three days later, those righteous spirits came out of their graves and entered the city and showed themselves as the risen body of Christ= ‘The Anointed one’, whose spiritual head was now Jesus, the chosen caretaker to the heavenly throne.


bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2021 07:32 pm
@The Anointed,
So then you're accusing me of not believing in him?

The god that I do not believe in is Allah. Nor Mary. These are false gods. The Mary cult know as Roman Catholicism is actually a disguised Ishtar sect. Mary cannot intercede for sins, nor should we place or faith in anyone who claims to be the Queen of Heaven or the Mother of God. This is literally the worst sort of heresy, supplanting God with an ersatz. Allah is another false god, whose chief goal is to teach that mankind is worthless, that their "God" (who it claims to be the same as God) requires them to wear veils. But masks and veils are part of Mystery Babylon, which defies the Gospel that we are sovereigns given authority to preach God's word on Earth.

Quote:
"What is man that You are mindful of him, or the son of man that You care for him? 7You made him a little lower than the angels; You crowned him with glory and honor 8and placed everything under his feet. "


God has made us not subject to the laws of men, but like princes in heaven. But the Mystery Babylon defies the gospel, saying man is not made in God's image, but rather are serfs to be muzzled (get it, Muslim->Muzzle-em?) and denies both the teaching of grace and that Christ really died on the cross. Nope. False god.

We should not place our faith in humans but in God. And I do. What I do not place my faith in is Deceivers. Those who teach false gospels to try to undermine the faith of others.

So am I also a deceiver? Well let's examine the text. You say only Jesus can never actually die. But we are the Body of Christ.

Quote:
The Body of Christ

12The body is a unit, though it is composed of many parts. And although its parts are many, they all form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.

14For the body does not consist of one part, but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?

18But in fact, God has arranged the members of the body, every one of them, according to His design. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.


All of us are intended as the body of Christ. And if we were to be at odds with God, when he intends us to all be saved and to all become part of this Body, then it is like a house that is divided. We may have a hard time of it, if we say we do not belong to the body (or that we're greater than other parts). But an eye cannot disjoin itself from the body, no matter how it claims to not be a part.

Nothing can separate us from God. Not even we ourselves. To propose otherwise is claim we can do something to surpass God's will.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2021 09:36 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
So then you're accusing me of not believing in him?


No you accused yourself of not believing God, when you confessed to all on this forum, that you categorically reject the idea of God punishing people, when from Genesis to Revelation it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that God does punish the wrong doers

Quote:
You say only Jesus can never actually die. But we are the Body of Christ.


You either lie, or prove to all that you do not have the ability to comprehend that which you have read, because, never did I ever say that Jesus could never actually die. What I did say, is that it was HE who filled the man Jesus with his spirit could never actually die, but when HE abandoned HIS chosen heir on the cross, HE ceased to be an individual entity by releasing the spirits of all the righteous souls that had been gathered to HIM, and that their graves were immediately opened, and three days later, those saints came out of their graves and entered the city and showed themselves as the risen body of the Anointed one, who, at the age of 365 was carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and anointed as his heir and successor to that throne.

Jesus who was born of the union of Mary and her half brother Joseph, who were both sired by Heli (Alexander Helios III) by two different mothers, was a genetic descendant of King David and born of the seed of Adam, and like all human beings had to pay the blood price for our inherited sin.

Adam, who was sentenced to die, cannot die until all that he has become has died.

If you planted a genetically modified seed on an island, only to find years later, that it was a noxious invasive weed that was destroying every other plant on the island, to destroy that original seed that you had planted, you would have to destroy every plant that had sprung from it.

Quote:
We should not place our faith in humans but in God.


2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Quote:
I do not place my faith in is Deceivers. Those who teach false gospels to try to undermine the faith of others.


Are you referring to deceivers who would try to convince Christians that Jesus was born a female?

Quote:
"All" of us are intended as the body of Christ.


Matthew 20:28; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for 'MANY'."

Mark 10:45; For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for 'MANY'."

Hebrews 9:28 so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of MANY, he will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.

Do you honestly believe that the entire human race are 'ALL" eagerly waiting for him?

Catch ya later bul.

bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2021 11:34 pm
@The Anointed,
I do not believe in a false version of God. The Jews of the Old Testament had personal relationship with God. They occasionally worshipped other gods. God punished them, then forgave them when they came to their senses, the the prodigal son. But in this story, the Jews are the other son, as they now tell God "why did you not give me this cool fatted calf? I've stuck with you forever and done your will." Only... the Jews have made a false god when they let their Temple and their Law become a god. This is the curse of the Law, when you let following the rules become a god unto itself.
If you think I reject God, you haven't been listening here. I reject a god who would send people to hell. But that is not God. God does indeed punish us. He even might destroy us body and spirit. But he does not do give us anything undeserved. The lifespan of a human is about 60 to 80 years, yet somehow we get tortured eternally? No that's wrong. Nothing undeserved... aside from grace.

The man of Jesus Christ is simply a human. But the God in Jesus Christ was with God since the beginning, according to biblical canon (John 1). He was there when Acob wanted to wrestle. He was there to meet Lot in Sodom. He was such a fixture that Proverbs mentions Lady Wisdom.
The person of God is one that you have typecasted as a specific form. This is an idol. I understand Jesus as a female because this literally makes sense to me. This idol you have is a graven image, made by painters.

Around the time of Jesus, Jews had completely lost connection with a personal relationship with God. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, they all knew Jesus. They knew what it was to have their lives messed up, and to experience God's love firsthand. The Jews he was born around were more concerned with clean hands and sacrifices at the temple, and God didn't know them. Now the Christians are in the same place. You see a historical figure, a painting. You can't get your head around the idea that Jesus is God. And God does not have a fixed form. After Jesus was raised, Mary who apparently knows and loves Jesus thinks Jesus is the gardener. People walking on the road who meet him don't recognize him either. Jesus does not have to be male. Jesus does not have to have a beard. Or long hair. Or whatever else you've got as an image. This is not a false teaching. Read what is said about God's gender.

Quote:
God is an immaterial being—not a physical being (Jn. 1:18; 4:24; 1 Tim. 1:17; 6:15-16). Thus God is not anatomically masculine. And yet, the Bible refers to God as a He—not a She. Is this because the Bible is chauvinistic or misogynistic?

Of course not. God is called a “Him,” because calling God an “It” would make him impersonal. Since God is a personal being, he needed to express himself with a gender. But why the male gender?

According to the Bible, gender distinctions are not merely the construction of cultures or societies. Scripture teaches that humans were created with different genders and these carry different, important qualities. Hopefully, we love both our father and mother, but we relate to them differently. Paul notes that mothers have a certain tenderness for their children that fathers do not have (1 Thess. 2:7). Moreover, fathers have an encouraging and exhorting role that mothers do not have (1 Thess. 2:11). God wanted us to relate to him specifically as a father (Mt. 6:9; Gal. 4:6), and this is because he wants to play that specific role as a leader in our lives.


Quote:
Finally, we shouldn’t ignore the feminine qualities that God expresses. For instance, God gives birth to Israel (Deut. 32:18); God nurses believers like a mother (Ps. 131:2); God is called a mother in labor (Isa. 42:14); God describes himself as a mother bear and a lioness (Hos. 13:8); he also describes himself as a female hen who desires to “gather her chicks under her wings” (Mt. 23:37). Moreover, even Paul speaks of himself as a mother giving birth to the Galatian believers, using clear feminine imagery (Gal. 4:19). For these reasons, the Bible depicts God as masculine, but he also expresses feminine qualities as well.


But I do not have a healthy relationship with most male figures in my life. So a male Savior simply does not work for me. You are fixating on the maleness of Jesus and not realizing that the reason I can make a case for this is that it completely does not matter. It affects no theology. Because Jesus was not married, appeared to have zero interest in sexual relationships and hung our with both guys and girls. Jesus is nonsexual, and controversial in a number of ways. A woman being a priest and prophet would not make any difference. It also would help explain a nagging question about why women couldn't be priests. The early Christians just chauvinistic assholes ? Or was it a matter of competing with Jesus?

A belief is deception if it distracts from true teaching. Making icons of Mary for example is to place her as a rival to God. Islam falsifies the nature of "God" into a cruel, deceptive, and capricious being. These are real deceptions.

Quote:
In the day that God created man, He made him in His own likeness. 2Male and female He created them, and He blessed them. And in the day they were created, He called them “man.”


How can a God who made humans both male and female in his image only depict Jesus as male? Jesus was born on Earth as a perfect human, a new Adam. But there's something you don't know. Adam was originally a hermaphrodite. Tsela means rib or side. A two-sided human.
http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-category/jewish-texts/the-chumash-five-books-of-moses/adam-and-eve-story/?p=2537
The Bible mentions that just as Adam sinned, Jesus gave forgiveness of sin

The entire human race will not all accept Jesus. However...

Quote:
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

The whole world. Not just the Christian fanclub. Not just the believers. Not just those YOU think are worthy (not my hangup, you discuss that with God). The whole world.

Jesus mentions that he has other flocks that are not of this fold, but he will bring them in.

God desires all to be saved. Not just those who seem to fit the profile.

There's mention that every knee will bend to Jesus. This is impossible if Satan is able to corrupt a majority of the world. Or destroy them. Yet this cannot be a lie. Therefore, eliminating the impossible (that Satan wins and destroys all the righteous or turns them to sin), whatever remains no matter how improbable must be true.This includes reincarnation. They won't all embrace him initially. But God will create a way.







The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2021 05:00 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
The man of Jesus Christ is simply a human. But the God in Jesus Christ was with God since the beginning, according to biblical canon (John 1).[quote]

John 1; Has nothing to do with the man Jesus.

The Man Jesus was indeed a human being, born of the seed of Adam as are all human beings, and the God within the man Jesus, was the ‘THE SON OF MAN’ who is ‘THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD’. The seed that God planted in the body of Eve, which child would take over seven thousand years to develop in her body, which body, has become the sinful body of mankind.

The 'SON OF MAN', who mentally descended from his heights in time and was chosen by Abraham as his God, who filled the man Jesus with his spirit, His words.

The child that would crush the head of Satan, and lay down his life for the sins of the body in which He develops, as we all must die once for the sins and mistakes made while developing within the flesh, then the disembodied spirit that is ‘WE” must go off into judgement.

He, the only begotten son of God, develops within the body of EVE, who has become the great pregnant and sinful body of Mankind, over a period of seven thousand years, and the umbilical cord that binds him to the mother body is severed after the thousand years rule of Jesus is over, when heavenly fire incinerates all physical life forms on this planet, and the body of Eve is reunited with her Lord, Adam.

Adam died in the day that he ate of the forbidden fruit, and Eve was told that she would follow him in six days.

Jubilees 4: 30; And he (ADAM) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: ’On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.’ For this reason, he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.

The great seventh day Sabbath, of which the weekly Sabbath was but a shadow of that reality, which is fulfilled in Jesus, who will rule that day for a thousand years, after which the great androgynous body of Eve is reunited with Adam, and God’s only begotten son (THE SON OF MAN) is born and takes his throne and divides the disembodied spirits of all, who had died the first death.

The righteous spirits, who are to inherit everlasting life are divided from the unrepentant wicked spirits, which are to be cast into the eternal fire where those spirits are divided from the soul of God, in the eternal death, the eternal punishment for the unrepentant sinners. (Eternal and everlasting death from which there is no return.

But God will give that portion of his soul a new body in which to develop a new spirit.

Catch ya later mate.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2021 07:56 am
@The Anointed,
See this is where your teachings run false.

https://www.whatdomormonsbelieve.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/artbook__064_064__jesuscarryingalostlamb____-225x300.jpg

This is the average image that most people have of Jesus in the West.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/5c/ed/925cede3c8e239427bcfcf3d860e238a.jpg
But this is what I have on a wall near me.
https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/131190_Korean_Jesus_jpg6d034ffc7bc1000778c6bc12c4165e5e
This is Korean Jesus, walking on water in style.
https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/131421_Jewish_Jesus_jpg3bc4aa1b2c4d029ddcadf0170c79db4b
Jesus as a kinda Jewish outcast.
https://www.frank-answers.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Black-Jesus-816x1024.jpg
And Jesus depicted by blacks.

It's just a depiction. A guideline to understanding the truth of Jesus. But it becomes an idol or graven image when we stick to the notion that only our version is correct. Jesus as I see him.
https://external-preview.redd.it/SS4zg3igZrId0H_6BvHQomG_bVqRjwKrLn0RtizHBqE.jpg?auto=webp&s=50c29132bf28e83535e1cb5b26c5d9a496f85ae0
This is King of the Jews.
This is what I mean by Jesus not only being a man. Jesus came to save each culture, and as a result, they depicted him however they saw him. Jesus did have a fixed form while he was alive, but that shouldn't matter to us.

Quote:
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Therefore anyone who holds an image of the Christ before he died on a cross is believing in a dying and dead Jesus. One who did not abandon such flesh after he died to become a spirit. But what our focus should be on is not the historical Jesus (the Screwtape Letters in fact mentions trying to sell people on such a concept) but the eternal and living Jesus. He is Lady Wisdom. He is the Prince of Peace.
https://www.theologyofwork.org/uploads/made/uploads/general/10897/wisdom-in-street-clothes__large-detail_320_320_70_s_c1.jpg


If we look at those worthy, none of us are. Not without God's grace. But God will give grace to all those who believe in Him and love Him. Not just those who follow strict dogma. Jesus himself defied many traditions of Jewish dogma, his followers eventually breaking away from the traditions.
I will be seeing you there if I can manage to stop torturing myself. We will argue there, face to face.
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2021 10:20 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
Therefore anyone who holds an image of the Christ before he died on a cross is believing in a dying and dead Jesus.
Quote:


Nope! they are believing in a man whose faith in the words of the Lord who spoke through him, saying; "Whoever believes in me, even though he dies yet shall he live again," was so great, that even though he died on the cross, at the command of the Lord who had filled him with his spirit, yet, did he live again, when the Lord God our saviour, raised his body from death, which body of flesh and blood was later translated as He was seen to ascend to our God and our Father.

All who believe that the man Jesus, was with God from the beginning and was the co-creator of the cosmos, are fools according to Paul an apostle of the Lord.

Romans 1: 18-23; God's anger is revealed from heaven against all the sin and evil of the people whose evil ways prevent the truth from being known.

God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God himself made it plain. Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!

They know God, but they do not give him the honour that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. 'Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness. They say they are wise, but they are fools'; instead of worshipping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortal human beings, etc such as you have depicted in your previous post.

And so God has given those people over to do the filthy things their hearts desire, and they do shameful things with each other. They exchange the truth about God for a lie; they worship and serve what God has created instead of the Creator himself, who is to be praised for ever! Amen.

'THE SON OF MAN", is the only begotten Son of God, whose Spiritual seed was implanted in the body of Eve, as revealed in Genesis. The Spiritual God seed that would develop in the expanded androgynous body of Eve=mankind.

The 'Son of Man' is the God child, that she would bear, as she dies in childbirth. The child who would crush the head of Satan, and pay the death penalty for all those who were obedient to the evolving spirit in mankind.

For, like all of us, who all have sinned must pay the death penalty for the sins and mistakes made while we the minds=spirits were developing in the body of flesh and blood. Which body dies the first death and returns to the elements from which it was created, while 'WE' the disembodied spirits, who developed within those bodies, go off into judgement.

I see from your previous post that you believe that the man Jesus was the God who was with the LOGOS in the beginning.

'Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness. They say they are wise, but they are fools'; instead of worshipping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortal human beings, etc.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2021 12:30 am
@The Anointed,
When you start searching for a fixed version of "Jesus was a man, and he had blue eyes, and he had brown hair, and he had beard. And anyone who doesn't focus on this is a heretic."

No, in fact I strongly encourage you to throw this away.

What did Jesus teach? Who was he? What was he about? This is the important part.

Can you replace the gender or race, and have everything Jesus says be just as relevant? An absolute yes. You can make Jesus black and focus on how he didn't get a fair trial because racism. You can talk about how the Romans were basically mocking the Jews by saying their king was a woman.
But you can also take the reverse position and just say that how Jesus looks literally doesn't matter. Because it DOESN'T.

You are like the Jews who don't believe in Jesus because he didn't wash his hands. Meanwhile, they shunned and excluded people to the point of neglecting widows and orphans.
You focus on the surface, and lost the larger image. Are you devoted to God as he lives in Jesus? Or an artist's rendering of a man?

http://www.israelite.net/image.htm
Quote:

<4> Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: <5> thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; <6> and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.


The problem of having a fixed image is when you forget that God is all-powerful and thus able to change his appearance. The second problem is when you forget that God came forgive sins, and thus forgives the sins even of those you think are outsiders. They too have an image of Jesus, but maybe they have humility enough to understand it isn't the only one. The third problem is that you seem to weirdly believe that Jesus was a normal human until God made him divine. This is unbiblical garbage, which would make you far more likely to be condemned by God... if God worked that way.


0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2021 01:20 am
@The Anointed,
Yes, complete nonsense.

You told me earlier something like that Jesus wasn't the son of God until his baptism. That water kinda magically made him God's son. This doesn't work like that.

A person is what God made them at birth, though God indeed allows for us to learn and grow. If we believe that mere water can remake someone who is only a human, what is the difference between that and believing that a sex-changed person really becomes a woman. A physical event does not by itself produce any change in the spirit. That is nonsense. Jesus is born as God made him. Wherever that leads.

The baptism is a symbol of one's being reborn as one of God's elect. But the water itself doesn't do a thing, in the same way as the bread and wine doesn't literally become body and blood. These are symbols to remind us of the reality of the teaching. The baptism marks the beginning of our spiritual growth, the confirmation is the key decision point. The reality of these things is spiritual not physical. Likewise, this image of Jesus shouldn't be taken literally. To do so is a nonsense idea.


bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2021 01:59 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Here's what it says about worshiping the image of Jesus and whether or not it's idolatry.

https://www.equip.org/bible_answers/are-images-of-jesus-idolatrous/
Quote:

First, if the second commandment condemns images of Jesus, then it condemns making images of anything at all. Therefore, God would have been guilty of contradicting himself because he commanded the Israelites to adorn the ark of the covenant with the images of cherubim (Exodus 25:18–20).

Furthermore, in context, the commandment is not an injunction against making “graven images,” but an injunction against worshiping them.

Quote:
Finally, if viewing an image necessarily leads to idolatry, then the incarnation of Christ was the greatest temptation of all. Yet, Jesus thought it appropriate for people to look on him and worship him as God (Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:52). That worship, however, was to be directed to his person, not his appearance. Indeed, idolatry lies not in the making of images, but in the worship of manmade images in place of the “image of the invisible God” (Colossians 1:15).


Read this again. First, if it's about making images, then God himself would be guilty of getting the Jews to carve cherunim. Second, it is then clear the real crime is worshiping carved images. Third, it is perfectly okay to represent the person of Jesus, if we understand that the concept of Jesus does not depend on his appearance.

If we think it does WE ARE COMMITTING IDOLATRY. While God probly will forgive us, but we are in no position to then judge others for their depiction of Jesus. None whatsoever. Any questions?
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2021 06:27 am
@bulmabriefs144,
[quote]You told me earlier something like that Jesus wasn't the son of God until his baptism. That water kinda magically made him God's son. This doesn't work like that.[/quote]

No mate, what I told you, was that Jesus was a human being, born of the seed of Adam as are all human beings, he was born of the flesh by the union of two human parents, Mary and her half-brother Joseph, who were both sired by Heli/Alexander Helios III by different mothers, and that on the day of his baptism, he was filled with the spirit of the Lord God our saviour, which descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my son, ‘THIS DAY’ I have begotten thee.” See Luke 3: 22.

I told you that the man Jesus was born “SON OF GOD” not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of Man, but by the spirit of the Lord, who said, as he came up out of the baptismal waters, “You are my son ‘TODAY’ I have become your Father.” See Hebrews 5: 5.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; I will raise them up a Prophet from among their own people, like unto thee, and will put ‘MY WORDS’ in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto ‘MY WORDS’ which he shall speak in ‘MY NAME’, I will surely Punish.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in, Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people. You are to obey everything that he tells you to do. Anyone who does not obey that prophet shall be separated from God's people and destroyed.’

When the Lord, speaking through His earthly host body, ‘Jesus’, spoke of eating his flesh, He went on to say to those he had chosen; “The flesh is of no use at all, it is the spirit that gives life and my words are spirit”. So, the spirit that Jesus was filled with, were the 'WORDS' of the Lord, which we must feed upon to gain everlasting life.

What a pity that you don’t have the mental capacity to comprehend that which you have read.

[quote]A person is what God made them at birth, though God indeed allows for us to learn and grow. If we believe that mere water can remake someone who is only a human, what is the difference between that and believing that a sex-changed person really becomes a woman. A physical event does not by itself produce any change in the spirit. That is nonsense. Jesus is born as God made him. Wherever that leads.[/quote]

Jesus was born of the flesh as a human Being, a genetic descendant of King David, and born of the seed of Adam, as God had made him, and the water had nothing to do with the man Jesus being made 'SON OF GOD', but everything to do, with the spirit of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, choosing him as his Heir and successor on the day he filled the man Jesus with his Spirit.

Jesus was chosen as the earthly 'TEMPLE' of the Lord, who said through the mouth of his servant Jesus; "Destroy this TEMPLE and in three days I will raise it up.

[quote]The baptism is a symbol of one's being reborn as one of God's elect. But the water itself doesn't do a thing,[/quote]

Fair dinkum, well who would have thunk that?

[quote]in the same way as the bread and wine doesn't literally become body and blood.[/quote]

You don't say, well who would have thunk that also.

[quote]The reality of these things is spiritual not physical. Likewise, this image of Jesus shouldn't be taken literally. To do so is a nonsense idea. [/quote]

What I believe is nonsense, is your belief, which you stole from the false teachings of the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine, that the man Jesus, was with the LOGOS God before the creation of the Cosmos.

Nighty night Mate.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2021 07:12 am
@The Anointed,
Yeah that. As if an absurd pronouncement makes what you say any more true.

Heli was Mary's father, Joseph was Mary's husband. You are misreading the Gospel to read this as a case of father-daughter incest. That you are so fixed in this suggests this is not really your idea. Either you have joined a sect that believes this (quit them) or you have been possessed by a demon of false teaching much like your quoting about complete nonsense (quit the demon too).
https://outreachjudaism.org/marys-genealogy/
Quote:
According to both Matthew and Luke, Jesus was born of a virgin. This claim, however, completely shatters the core Christian claim that Jesus was a legitimate heir to David’s throne and king of the Jews. The virgin birth myth undermines this fundamental Church teaching because tribal lineage is traced only through a person’s father, never the mother. This principle is clearly stated in the Torah:

"And on the first day of the second month, they assembled the whole congregation together, who registered themselves by families, by their fathers’ houses, according to the number of names from twenty years old and upward, head by head. "


If you are like the Jews and demand things like male bloodline, you find him wanring there even though both of his parents were of the house of David. Nevertheless, Jesus was called King of the Jews. So, we have a bit of a philosophical breaking point here. Either it is enough to be called King of the Jews, and your story about Jesus being Son of God once God called him that is perfectly fine. Or we take a strict notion that regardless of Mary's bloodline being perfect for an heir of David and having people call him the Messiah he wasn't because Joseph wasn't his real father, then you can't make him the Son of God regardless of God's pronouncement (especially if you disapprove of the vidgin birth, then Jesus has no blood claim to God either).
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-studies/life-of-christ-before-jesus-physical-birth-a-d-29/marys-genealogy/
There is a way out of this though. You reread the Gospel of Luke where it says, son of Eli (Heli) and understand this be correctly not an accpunt that Jesus is the son of Eli (his grandpa) but "presumed to be a son of Joseph", son of Eli, son of Matthat, son of... This is NOT saying that Eli is the father of Jesus. It is saying Eli is MARY'S father. This account is breaking with tradition, as Matthew gave Jesus's fake genealogy in Matthew (the one people expect is a male line, but Joseph is told to ADOPT Jesus by an angel of Heaven), but Luke's true genealogy which uses Mary's line. This is unheard of, even today, but it is the only bloodline Jesus has, being adopted by one parent, and having the other with no inheritance right whatsoever.
God elects Jesus as Messiah at his birth. And Jesus knows this. Jesus is lost at the temple. His mother is here, his (half) brothers and sisters, his (earthly) father is here in this story. All looking for him. He's debating with the temple elders and they're impressed. Mary is exasperated with him, but Jesus says "Did you not know that I would be in my father's house?" ( Looks around) Where is Heli? Oh wait, yeah probably dead. But certainly not in this temple. And Joseph was a carpenter, shouldn't he be in a woodshop? Nope he's in his Father's house. This is before God says anything about this is my Son. Reread this passage, and the passage where Jesus is unambiguously announced by an angel to be a coming pregnancy. "And Mary ran out and had sex with Eli?" No, the Gospel doesn't say this.


https://cdn.neverthirsty.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/matthew-luke-genealogy.gif
 

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