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The fat cats who bankroll the demmunist party

 
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 09:44 pm
Adrian wrote:
I hate to feed trolls, but, swolf, if I may ask. How many 100+ year old Russians do you know?


I said, I'd asked Russians whose PARENTS lived under the tsars, i.e. who had heard such discussions from their parents or grandparents.
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Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 09:50 pm
Laughing Oops. Sorry Swolf.

Anyway, what is your point here. There are bound to be just as many "shady characters" giving money to help the republicans.
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 09:51 pm
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
Surprise, Swolf! We're not all poor, and some of us are rich! Yes, there really are rich people who believe in democracy! Thanks for the opportunity to educate you.


Poverty is a state of mind. All democrats are poor in spirit, i.e. intellectually impoverished.
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 09:57 pm
Adrian wrote:
Laughing Oops. Sorry Swolf.

Anyway, what is your point here. There are bound to be just as many "shady characters" giving money to help the republicans.


Not really. I mean, there are a few, but the republican party is basically financed by people like me, at $50 here, $100 there. Democrats on the other hand do not really represent anybody or anything which could support a political party in terms of either votes or money, nonetheless they feel they have some God-given mandate to rule regardless, and that it doesn't matter what they have to do to accomplish that. Thus you find them pandering to fatcats like George Soros and/or the trial lawyers guild, and raising money in every country on Earth except this one which they live in (theoretically), and that includes stunts like Chinagate and the Grand Staircase scandal in which major kinds of national assets are sold off at pennies on the dollar for dnc campaign cash.

The DNC is basically a crime syndicate.
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Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 10:19 pm
What you're saying isn't really true. The republicans collect more money overall than the democrats, They collect just as much "soft money" as the democrats. The big difference seems to be that unions support the democrats and business supports the republicans. That makes sense to me.

Given that both parties are dealing with hundreds of millions of dollars why are you getting upset about a couple of hundred thousand coming from questionable sources.

At least it was hard money and not soft.
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the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 10:48 pm
get real, swolf! Do you realize who the fatcats are that contribute mainly to republicans? Corporate interests who are out to screw the average person and who receive billions in tax relief in return for the favor. look into it, why don't you? start with the medical plan, and then look at the energy plan (of course I mean if that info is ever made public) to see where the contributions of conservatives are going. It isn't to the common good, it's to the profit margin. Therein lies the difference! Democrats are intellectually impovershed? That is a laugh indeed!
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 11:37 pm
Adrian wrote:


Given that both parties are dealing with hundreds of millions of dollars why are you getting upset about a couple of hundred thousand coming from questionable sources.



One word: "Leverage". Grand Staircase pulled a trillion dollars out of the American economy for the sake of a few lousy million tossed into the DNC coffers by Slicks LIPPO buddies. That's basically economic treason.
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Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 12:02 am
Rubbish.

The coal isn't worth that much. There is more than enough of it in Montana and Wyoming anyway.

It's nothing but a beat up.

Indonesia digs up less coal in a year than you guys do in a week.
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 05:32 am
http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/indocoal.htm

Quote:

The Utah Coal Lockup: A trillion dollar Lippo payoff?

By: Sarah Foster

When the President signed the Executive Order designating 1.7 million acres of land in southwest Utah as the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, his action placed the area off limits to mineral extraction and development.

The New York Times reported that the monument encloses the largest coal field in the nation, the Kaiparowitz Plateau, which contains at least 7 billion tons of coal worth over $1 TRILLION.

Kentucky-based company Andalux Resources, which holds leases on 3,400 acres in the area, was planning to open a huge operation (underground, not strip mining) that would have generated 1,000 jobs, $1 million in annual revenue for Kane County, and at least $10 million a year in state and federal taxes, according to the New York Times. Folks living in the area wore black arm bands the day o the signing - but Clinton didn't see them. He chose to make his announcement in a neighboring state. WHY?

Why did he do it? Why lock up $1 trillion worth of coal?

An obvious explanation is he was hoping to secure the environmentalist vote. Though that was no doubt part of his reasoning, he had surely achieved such an objective earlier this summer when he declared the huge area outside Yellowstone National Park a World Heritage Area. Let'' look further.

In the weeks prior to the past election, revelations surfaced almost daily regarding donations from foreign sources to the Democratic Party and Clinton's past campaigns. At the center of the controversy was another set of people to whom Clinton owes a few favors: the Lippo Group, a powerful $5 billion Indonesian conglomerate, founded and owned by the Riady family who, it turned out, had raised and funneled millions of dollars into campaign coffers.

Democrats attempted to downplay the allegations of impropriety. Even if the Clinton campaign and the Party did receive illegal contribution- which is denied -what, they demanded, had Clinton done for Lippo Group, the Riadys, or Indonesia that really affects this country adversely? Good question. The Payoff

Clinton's announcement at the Grand Canyon was wrapped in political correctness. "Mining jobs are good jobs, and mining is important to our national security - but we can't have mines everywhere, and we shouldn't have mines that threaten national treasures," he told his sycophantic audience.

But coal is not only important for our nation's security. More importantly, at the present time it is the most cost-effective fuel for the electric plants that supply our homes and industries with light, heat and power.

Moreover, the coal at Kaiporowitz Plateau is a kind of coal that is not found "everywhere." It is very low sulfur, low ash - hence, low polluting - coal, the kind in high demand for power plants, such as one being designed for Ensenada, Mexico. That megawatt giant, presently on the drawing boards, will supply electricity across northern Baja, an area plagued by brownouts.

Had it not been taken off the world market, the logical source of coal for the Baja plant would be the Kaiparowitz Plateau. Once mined it could be transported by rail to the ports of Long Beach or Los Angeles, then by barge to Ensenada. Thanks to Clinton, there will be no exporting of Kaiparowitz coal, which means the facility's procurement people will have to look elsewhere for clean non-polluting fuel.

Only two other sources

Besides the Kaiparowitz Plateau, there are only two other known locations in the world where comparable coal is found in sufficient quantities to make mining it worthwhile. Colombia in South America is one, but it'll be years before the necessary mining and shipping infrastructure is built.

The other? You got it. Indonesia.

That's right - the coal fields of South Kalimantan (Borneo), Indonesia. Big plans are online for its development. Indonesia has been a source of coal for over a century, but the coal varies sharply in terms of quality. Recently, however, a coal that is very low in sulfur has been discovered. A number of coal companies are already there, and it's a good bet Lippo Group money is involved. A major company is Adaro Indonesia, of which 20 percent is owned by the Spanish government, 50 percent by New Hope Corp., an Australian firm.

Envirocoal

According to the 1994 report Mineral Industry of Indonesia, by the bureau of Mines, U.S. Dept. of Interior, Adaro aims to produce 15 million tones by the year 2000 of what they call Envirocoal - a reference to its quality. Adaro has for several years anticipated the U.S. as a major market, and has one committed purchaser already: Tampa Electric Co., which signed a long-term contract to purchase 400,000 tones a year from the Indonesian firm.

To handle the shipping of the increased production, new shipping terminals are being constructed. One huge one is on a neighboring island at a cost of $1 billion. The P.T. Indonesia bulk Terminal, as the megaport is called, is owned 50 percent by New How, and 50 percent by "Indonesian interests" (the Lippo Group perhaps), according to the Interior Dept. report.

Massive coal deposits, massive shipping facilities - that spells massive investment, massive contracts. This isn't some small-0is-beautiful eco-operation. We're talking real money here, and it's hard to imagine that the "Lippopotamus" is not in on the action. But even if Lippo's not directly involved, the Indonesian government, with which Lippo has a cozy relationship, certainly does. So too will the various foreign investors and mining companies to whom the Indonesian government has extended an open invitation.

Winners and Losers

In any game there are winners and losers, and there are Americans in the first category - the investors who put their money in overseas coal mining, producers of natural gas, which the administration supports wholeheartedly.

Plus, there's a deal between a Little Rock firm and Lippo. According to the ENERGY ECONOMIST for Sept., 1994, Entergy Group of Little Rock, in partnership with the Lippo Group of Hong Kong, signed a memorandum of understanding with the North China Power Corporation for the cooperative management and expansion of the $1 billion 1,200 megawatt coal-fired Daton 2 power plan in Shanxi Province. Isn't that interesting And where do you think the coal will come from?

The Democrats' question: What has Clinton done for Indonesia that harms the United States? The answer is - with a stroke of his pen he wiped out the only significant competition to Indonesian coal interests in the world market before it even got started, a move that at the same time relegates this country to importer status. His edict will force us into eventual dependency on foreign producers of coal as we are presently dependent on overseas sources for oil - an unconscionable situation considering that we have abundant deposits of both commodities.

The President has given our children a legacy of continued energy dependence, marked by contrived shortages and crises, the full impact of which will be sharply felt in the years to come.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 05:36 am
Adrian wrote:
What you're saying isn't really true. The republicans collect more money overall than the democrats,


The difference is that the middle class mainly pays for the Republican party and has a voice in it. The dems represent the poor and the rich, but not the middle class. The dems have no loyalty or sympathy whatsoever to the middle class and would just as soon get rid of it.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 05:46 am
swolf wrote:
The dems represent the poor and the rich, but not the middle class.


Perhaps, you should change this?

Here, in Europe, you become a member of a party.

So you find in most parties -especially in the bigger parties, but even the rather small (rightish, in Germany) Liberals- sections for workers, employees, shop owners, employer ... .
And even as a 'normal' member you have the chance to get your situation/position/opinion effectively on the way.

So, a party represents its members.
Mainly, because since they want to get more new members, they can't leave others out.
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