What makes existence better than non-existence?

@Fil Albuquerque,

I'm sorry I'm kind of confused by everything you've said now. I think people kill themselves because pain is too great. I don't believe suicide is much of a choice as is "the pain is either great enough, so you kill yourself, or it isn't, so you continue to live."

Continuing to live is usually easier than ending your own life or accepting death. It's just natural for us.

Quote:

In existing, being aware, you measure suffering vs pleasure, and transit between states that are not definitive. What you don't do is comparing it to nothingness.

I thought this whole forum post was about comparing life to death.

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While people may think in death the "ceasing of suffering" is the most obvious intuitive counter for placing value, to state that it is "better" by contrast, it still is not valid. You don't have a subject to apply what is it that is better after. You project in the present towards a non state in the future. The relief comes from the illusion a contrast is there, when all you have is the suffering while you suffer. The non state after is beyond confrontation. It doesn't address no one.

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@LunaClare,

And what IS death ? You can state is "all non thinging", but this doesn't explain much.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

And what IS death ? You can state is "all non thinging", but this doesn't explain much.

Death is the shadow cast by life. Without life, death wouldn't have any meaning.

To live is to have blood flow, but beyond that, in this case, it is to have thoughts and feelings. To be dead is for blood to stop flowing, and beyond that, for thoughts and feelings to cease.

To not exist is to not feel pain and to not be deprived of happiness. That is why, in my opinion, not existing is always better than existing, even if you lead a very good life. Because it requires "awareness" and "effort" and "worry". None of it holds any weight if you could just be dead and not have to deal with any of it.

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To wrap it up:

I don't know nothing about dying except that I am alive while I look at it.

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@LunaClare,

You are projecting relief into a non state...but the relief is present in the "now" not after.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

To wrap it up:

I don't know nothing about dying except that I am alive while I look at it.

I've already stated in the original post that my assumptions of what it means to be dead are based on the science of dying itself.

Blood stops flowing -> brain stops functioning -> nervous system fails -> consciousness ceases -> no thoughts or feelings.

Can you argue with that? Is that not what would happen if we died?

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@LunaClare,

LunaClare wrote:

Quote:
To wrap it up:

I don't know nothing about dying except that I am alive while I look at it.
I've already stated in the original post that my assumptions of what it means to be dead are based on the science of dying itself.

Blood stops flowing -> brain stops functioning -> nervous system fails -> consciousness ceases -> no thoughts or feelings.

Can you argue with that? Is that not what would happen if we died?

No one is denying live observations of death...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

No one is denying live observations of death...

So you choose just not to make any assumptions then? Or are you saying there could be something afterward?

How cruel that we would be unable to escape the confines of consciousness, even in death. Can there not be an escape or an end if we so choose? Why would we be forced to exist in conscious form?

I'm sorry but if you're not going to agree with me or come to your own conclusions about the topic, you're not really contributing. You're just nitpicking.

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@LunaClare,

Ya know...I could scare you with some mind experiment of sorts...

...who's to say the moment someone is dying in profound agony doesn't stretch time to infinity like in real numbers for said person who is dying ? Witnessing living beings transcend the death moment with infinite energy but not the one who is dying as it loses energy... Suffering the last moment could be an eternal process to infinity...Do I believe it ? No ! Can I disprove it ? No !

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@LunaClare,

I am saying afterwards does not refer.

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Now past the suffering of being in the process of dying which is physically painful, just before the lights black out for whoever is leaving...ya all better have good conscience on moral conduct and die "happy" ! Wink

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@Fil Albuquerque,

For one, the moment of death cannot feel like an eternity. Immediately when your brain stops functioning, all thoughts, no matter how long they would last otherwise, would also cease.

Two, I perhaps think this topic wasn't meant for you if you believe morals exist.

I realize that the more carefree one's life is, the less they would understand this way of thinking.

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@LunaClare,

“Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.” — Gandhi

LunaClare wrote:

I wrote:
Well, being dead certainly is easier than being alive. And cutting through all of the filler, it sounds like that's exactly what you're saying

Yes, I am saying that. Not only that, but life has no redeeming quality to make the difficulty of living worthwhile.

By starting this thread, you betray your own statement – or maybe not. It could be that you've committed a fallacy of false equivalence, where you're assuming that just because something isn't universally worthwhile, that means it can't/shouldn't be worthwhile to you.

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@thack45,

Quote:

By starting this thread, you betray your own statement – or maybe not. It could be that you've committed a fallacy of false equivalence, where you're assuming that just because something isn't universally worthwhile, that means it can't/shouldn't be worthwhile to you.

Well, I am saying that despite what reasons or conclusions one comes to about life or the value of living, they would always, in every case be better off dead. There is no justifiable reason to live, in the face of non-existence. Meanwhile, in my opinion, there is every reason to die.

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@LunaClare,

You didn't understood what I said regarding mathematics of infinity...

...say for the living with infinite energy you can transcend the infinity of whom is dying...you see them dying...

...but for the one who is actually dying his infinity is shorter then yours because his losing energy for infinity while never reaching zero energy...think real numbers...

its "frozen" alive in the last moment.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

You didn't understood what I said regarding mathematics of infinity...

...say for the living with infinite energy you can transcend the infinity of whom is dying...you see them dying...

...but for the one who is actually dying his infinity is shorter then yours because his losing energy for infinity while never reaching zero energy...think real numbers...

its "frozen" alive in the last moment.

This feels unnecessary, that's all. If a thought process like feeling pain was dragged out for eternity... the amount of pain and feeling it would be the same, wouldn't it? According to reality, it couldn't be otherwise... and I'm not really going to play with concepts that don't pertain to reality.

Also this is off topic. Do you have anything to say about what makes existence better than non-existence?

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@LunaClare,

...aaah no fun talking to ya...you would go past gold and see sand all the way...you manage to miss all the important points being made so far. Plus you have now been answered several times and still don't get it...night night !

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

...aaah no fun talking to ya...you would go past gold and see sand all the way...you manage to miss all the important points being made so far. Plus you have now been answered several times and still don't get it...night night !

I do hope you understand I have wished I was dead for over four months now, tried talking to over 30 people including family, psychiatrists, counselors, friends, and strangers. I have absolutely no hope that anyone will be able to convince me otherwise but I still continue trying.

My patience has run thin with it all. It's very disappointing when you try something over and over and still it fails.

I didn't see anything important being mentioned by you, nor did I see anything impressive. It felt like you were just birdwalking all over the place with a bunch of stuff that didn't handle the theory directly. And when I ask you to handle it directly you instead tell me I've been missing the point.

Well, alright then.

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@LunaClare,

Get some chocolates....night night ! Wink

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What makes existence better than non-existence?

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