9
   

Is the world being destroyed?

 
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 04:25 am
Pathogens, precipitation and produce prices

Crop production and food security remain one of the primary concerns in a changing world. Research and comments in this issue highlight the various threats to our produce and the carry-over effects of food shocks.

Quote:
While the direct and indirect impacts of the climate crisis on human health have long been documented, unsurprisingly, the last ~18 months have seen increased interest in the role of climate change in the spread of pathogens. Focus has been placed on the spread of insect (for example, ref. 1) or mammalian vector populations 2 under recent or future climate changes, but more bizarre stories have also been reported in the media. The concept of ‘zombie-like pathogens’ that could re-emerge from deep-cold slumbers was itself reawakened in the popular consciousness in 2016 when a 12-year-old boy died of anthrax (Bacillus anthracis). The presumed cause: a heatwave that thawed frozen Siberian soil, and with it, an infected reindeer carcass.

Often somewhat peripheral to these discussions lies the fact that pathogens are not only a detriment to human health through direct infection, but that they also exist as a major threat to global food supply. The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) estimates that plant diseases cost the global economy around US$220 billion per year, with 20–40% of crop production lost to pests 3. Unsurprisingly, there is already evidence that changing climate plays a role in the spread and management of plant pathogens and pests.

Wheat blast disease, caused by the fungus Magnaporthe oryzae Triticum, represents a severe threat to wheat production. Originally identified in Brazil, the disease was first reported in Bangladesh in 2016 and subsequently spread to neighbouring India, the world’s second largest producer of wheat. Although the pathogen itself was likely transported into the region by anthropogenic activity, the 2016 outbreak was believed to be facilitated by an abnormally warm and humid pre-harvest season, linked to climate change 4.

More broadly, a 2020 study in Nature Climate Change demonstrated that warming increases the abundance of soil-borne potential fungal plant pathogens 5, while a 2013 study of 600 crop pests and pathogens 6 showed that poleward movement of just under 3 km per year has been underway since 1960. In this month’s issue, Chaloner and colleagues project the impact of future climates on both the productivity of 12 crop species and the temperature-dependent infection risk from 80 fungal and oomycete (fungus-like) plant pathogens. While the researchers find support for average global increases in yield for most crop species — driven primarily by productivity boosts at high latitude — they also reveal expected increases in infection risks that will track these changes. See also the Saunders N&Vs for further discussion.

Of additional concern is that these changes will also see marked shifts in the assemblages of pathogens at certain locations. In a similar vein, the 2013 work found differences in movement between broader taxonomic groups, and a recent study 7 showed that many plant-eating insect pest species have mixed responses (both increasing and decreasing) to change. Overall, these convoluted responses complicate costly management methods, which may be pest- or pathogen-specific.

Adding further to this complexity is the fact that plant pathogen changes will not be the only challenges facing crop production. Hotter, drier events, including prolonged droughts, will require further adaptation to ensure food security. Examples featured in this issue include a research article by Fischer and colleagues, which estimates that the probability of ‘record-shattering’ heat events — week-long heat extremes that break records by three or more standard deviations — will be up to 21 times more likely in the years 2051–2080 than during the last three decades. A Snapshot discusses some of the droughts that have impacted most continents throughout the first half of 2021. Southern Madagascar, for example, has experienced consecutive harvest failures and is in an extended and severe ‘lean season’ (the period between harvests), and this region will experience increased drought severity with warming. Importantly, droughts rarely occur in isolation, and the risk of simultaneous breadbasket failure has increased historically 8.

Threats to food security represent a global issue, and, like many climate change impacts, have disproportionate effects on already disadvantaged groups. Beyond local impacts, agricultural disruptions caused by extreme weather events can have far-reaching carry-over economic repercussions, such as the 2010 droughts in Russia and eastern Europe that caused food shortages and price surges. Peersman and colleagues find that such disruptions cause economic impacts that are stronger for higher-income than lower-income countries, despite lower shares of food in household expenditures in the former.

The impacts of climate change on crop productivity and food security can be diverse and disastrous. While adaptation is needed in both the short and long term to mitigate the damage, it’s clear that additional preventative strategies to buffer the shock of future change — such as the recently discussed diversification of food supply chains 9 — should also be planned.

nature
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 07:29 am
A a joint editorial by more than 220 medical journals might be of interest:

Call for emergency action to limit global temperature increases, restore biodiversity, and protect health
Quote:
[...]
The science is unequivocal; a global increase of 1·5°C above the pre-industrial average and the continued loss of biodiversity risk catastrophic harm to health that will be impossible to reverse.2, 3
[...]
Global heating is also contributing to the decline in global yield potential for major crops, falling by 1·8–5·6% since 1981; this, together with the effects of extreme weather and soil depletion, is hampering efforts to reduce undernutrition.4 Thriving ecosystems are essential to human health, and the widespread destruction of nature, including habitats and species, is eroding water and food security and increasing the chance of pandemics.3, 7, 8
[...]
Rises above 1·5°C increase the chance of reaching tipping points in natural systems that could lock the world into an acutely unstable state. This would critically impair our ability to mitigate harms and to prevent catastrophic, runaway environmental change.9, 10
... ... ...
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 08:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Thanks, Walter Hinteler, that's the piece that was described in the CNN article I posted earlier.

Quote:
Health is already being harmed by global temperature increases and the destruction of the natural world, a state of affairs health professionals have been bringing attention to for decades.
(...)
Global heating is also contributing to the decline in global yield potential for major crops, falling by 1·8–5·6% since 1981; this, together with the effects of extreme weather and soil depletion, is hampering efforts to reduce undernutrition.
(...)
Rises above 1·5°C increase the chance of reaching tipping points in natural systems that could lock the world into an acutely unstable state.
(...)
Targets are easy to set and hard to achieve. They are yet to be matched with credible short-term and longer-term plans to accelerate cleaner technologies and transform societies. Emissions reduction plans do not adequately incorporate health considerations.12 Concern is growing that temperature rises above 1·5°C are beginning to be seen as inevitable, or even acceptable, to powerful members of the global community.13 Relatedly, current strategies for reducing emissions to net zero by the middle of the 21st century implausibly assume that the world will acquire great capabilities to remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere.14 , 15 This insufficient action means that temperature increases are likely to be well in excess of 2°C,16 a catastrophic outcome for health and environmental stability. Crucially, the destruction of nature does not have parity of esteem with the climate element of the crisis, and every single global target to restore biodiversity loss by 2020 was missed.17 This is an overall environmental crisis.18


Gee, you'd think announcements like this would suggest an increase in uncertainty about the future. I'm glad somebody active in this thread has already explained why there's less reason for us to be uncertain than at any time in the past.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 08:36 am
Let's talk scientific literacy, which is the ability to read and understand scientific articles in an objective way. There are two main things to consider.

1) Are the claims being made in the article from a scientifically credible source?
2) What is the article actually saying?

1) In the first case... real science is done by real scientists. You should accept quotes from science institutions more than things being said by a environmental activist group, a political group.

You should also be wary of any article that says "according to a study". This is a journalistic technique used when the journalist wants to make a point (even if it isn't supported). Even a well-designed study from a real scientist needs to be repeated (and sometimes studies can't be confirmed). Good science has been repeated and accepted by the broad scientific community. When science is stated by the major scientific organizations (from AAAS to IPCC) you can trust it.

2) Scientific articles state something. What they are saying may support your a political or ideological narrative. However, the article says what it says and no more.

You will notice something about the better written articles (with actually scientific sources) that Hightor is posting. The fall quite a bit short from the world being destroyed.

If an article is talking about an increase in disease, it means that their will be more disease. This doesn't mean the end of world or the fall of civilization. It just means that some more people will get sick.

I wonder if people actually are reading these articles (rather than Hightor's headlines). If anyone has the impression that crop yields have been decreasing in the past 10 years (before the pandemic), they are mistaken.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 08:40 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Let's talk scientific literacy, which is the ability to read and understand scientific articles in an objective way.

But that's not the point of the thread. I'm just posting a range of material which explains why many people are concerned about the future from an environmental point of view.
Quote:
The fall quite a bit short from the world being destroyed.

Actually, no one else is saying that either.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 08:42 am
The problem with this thread is the Ideological Narrative which is twisting the facts.

This parade of doom and gloom isn't about Global Warming. The fact is, if you step back a bit from the extreme apocalyptic prophecies, I agree with Hightor on most of Global Warming. I believe it is scientifically correct, I believe it warrants definitive action. I believe it will pose significant health risks to human beings and cause economic problems particularly for the developing world.

The problem is that Global Warming is being used to justify the rest of an anti-progress narrative. Notice how climate change articles are being pushed into rather extreme conspiracy theories predicting the collapse of the modern economy.

Accept the Science. Be wary of the Ideological Narrative. These are two separate things. I am objecting to the rather extreme political message being pushed by this parade of apocalyptic stories.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 08:43 am
@hightor,
The point of this thread is to push a rather extreme political ideology. I am here to push back.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 09:09 am
@hightor,
This is bullshit, Hightor.

1) This is a thread that is called "Is the world being destroyed?". You didn't start this thread, you seem to be claiming ownership.

2) You have railed against "industrialism" , you have stated that food prices are too low, you have ranted about animal rights, you have criticized economic growth and you have preached against "greedy" corporations.

It doesn't make sense, you are worried about BPA in plastic (a chemical that may increase the risk of cancer a couple of percent). You are oblivious to the fact that raising food costs means that some people go without food.

The worst part of an ideological narrative is that it can push pure ideological principle without any consideration of the consequences of their own dogma. Without what Hightor calls "industrial" corporations, there would be internet and no covid vaccine. I don't know what world Hightor envisions, but I am pretty sure I prefer the real one (even with its challenges).

The simplistic political narrative doesn't hold up when you start to push back. That is why I am pushing back.


hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 01:58 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
1) This is a thread that is called "Is the world being destroyed?"
Yes. As I've explained to you many times, it's a question. It even has a question mark as the final punctuation. (Looks like this: ?) And, as I've said, and as the first post said, the answer is "no".
Quote:
You didn't start this thread, you seem to be claiming ownership.

Well, yes. The OP never returned and there was only one reply before I "claimed ownership" — I actually did nothing of the kind. As I've explained a few times, I'm curating the sorts of articles which make people question the trajectory of human civilization over the next fifty or so years. I'm not culling the ones which you'll disagree with, in fact, I've come to expect, but not enjoy, your regular appearance here. Nothing you say will influence the types of material I share here as the only prerequisite is that the articles present the negative and questionable aspects of the human enterprise, the reasons why so many people doubt that our future will be one of economic prosperity and environmental stewardship.
Quote:
2) You have railed against "industrialism" , you have stated that food prices are too low, you have ranted about animal rights, you have criticized economic growth and you have preached against "greedy" corporations.

So what? You don't share that perspective? That doesn't mean I don't have the right and the reason to present mine.
Quote:
It doesn't make sense, you are worried about BPA in plastic (a chemical that may increase the risk of cancer a couple of percent). You are oblivious to the fact that raising food costs means that some people go without food.

I don't claim to know what's best for the rest of the world but I do know that the USA can provide economic relief to low income citizens and legal residents who might be negatively affected by higher food prices.
Quote:
Without what Hightor calls "industrial" corporations, there would be internet and no covid vaccine.

If profit-making industries didn't exist our entire civilization would be different and perhaps we'd have neither the internet nor covid. I don't particularly care. The fact is, I will continue to critique aspects of the civilization we do have, and I consider your comments to be a completely off-the-wall defense of the status quo.
Quote:
The simplistic political narrative doesn't hold up when you start to push back.

It's not even a political narrative, it's simply a perspective illustrated by the many articles I come across. Your outrage and committed opposition to my even continuing this thread simply shows how one-dimensional and unimaginative you are.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 02:01 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I am here to push back.

Well you're wasting your time. You represent an "ideological narrative©" which is inoperative in this particular discussion. Your viewpoint is irrelevant.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 02:36 pm
@hightor,
Here is my ideological narrative. I present all of these as my opinions (an ideological narrative is based on opinion).

1. Climate change is real, and caused by humans. It will cause significant problems including more extreme weather events, problems with the food supply change and increased disease.

2. Climate change will not end the world or cause the downfall of human civilization.

3. The world has seen incredible progress over the past 200 years. We have almost eliminated famine. We have doubled the human life expectancy. We have driven once feared diseases to near extinction. We have slashed poverty and increased leisure time even in poor countries. We have pushed forward human rights (including women's rights, ending slavery, and LGBT rights).

4. This progress comes with costs. As humans get more prosperous there are tradeoffs that need to be made with the environment. These costs are manageable and worth the benefits of progress.

5. Humans are more important than animals. Yes, humans should factor in the needs of animals. This is not only a moral imperative, it is also to our own self interest. But still, when the choice is between the life of a non-human primate, and the risk of injury or death to a human child... the needs of the child come first every time.

It seems like each part of my ideological narrative is relevant to the posts you have made on this thread. Some parts of my ideological narrative you probably even agree with.

There is nothing wrong with having an ideological narrative. The problem is when you put it above the facts.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2021 02:39 pm
@maxdancona,
The most important part of my ideological narrative is this; Science must be objective, and based based on experiment rather than political opinion

What triggers me most on this thread is the pseudo-science. You are

1. Pushing conspiracy theories that are not back by science or scientific institutions, and then pulling science articles out of context to claim that they are "scientific".

2. Denying science that is backed by science and science institutions is valid when it doesn't match your political bias.

When you do that, it almost guarantees that I will respond. I do the same thing on the 9/11 truther threads and the "Einstein was wrong" threads.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2021 03:31 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
1. Pushing conspiracy theories that are not back by science or scientific institutions, and then pulling science articles out of context to claim that they are "scientific".

I've asked you to show me one "conspiracy theory" I've presented here. I suspect you don't know what a "conspiracy theory" is; you seem to use it as a convenient label to describe ideas which don't fit your "ideological narrative©". Secondly, to describe posting articles on a current topic as "pushing" is just a cheap rhetorical device used to denigrate me, the people who write the articles I post, and the entire topic. You've done this over 37 pages. It's been remarkably ineffective.

Quote:
2. Denying science that is backed by science and science institutions is valid when it doesn't match your political bias.

And where have I done this?

Quote:
When you do that, it almost guarantees that I will respond.


Since I've done neither, you've never "had to respond". You just can't tolerate someone posting studies and opinions which differ from yours on the uncertain prospects for humanity as we reap the consequences of centuries of irresponsibly destructive economic growth, propelled by greed, and rationalized as "progress".
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2021 04:04 am
Economic cost of climate change could be six times higher than previously thought

Quote:
Economic models of climate change may have substantially underestimated the costs of continued warming, according to a new study involving UCL researchers.

Published today in the journal Environmental Research Letters, the work by an international team of scientists found that the economic damage could be six times higher by the end of this century than previously estimated.

Projections like this help governments around the world calculate the relative costs and benefits of cutting greenhouse gas emissions. However, prior analysis has shown that the models used may ignore important risks and therefore underestimate the costs.

Currently, most models focus on short-term damage, assuming that climate change has no lasting effect on economic growth, despite growing evidence to the contrary. Extreme events like droughts, fires, heatwaves and storms are likely to cause long-term economic harm because of their impact on health, savings and labor productivity.

The study authors first updated one of the three climate-economy models used to set the price of carbon for national policy decisions, then used it to explore the impact of year-to-year climate variations and the rates of economic recovery after climate events.

The study shows that by 2100, global GDP could be 37% lower than it would be without the impacts of warming, when taking the effects of climate change on economic growth into account. Without accounting for lasting damages—excluded from most estimates—GDP would be around 6% lower, meaning the impacts on growth may increase the economic costs of climate change by a factor of six.

Yet, there is still considerable uncertainty about how much climate damages continue to affect long-term growth and how far societies can adapt to reduce these damages; depending on how much growth is affected, the economic costs of warming this century could be up to 51% of global GDP.

Study co-author Dr. Chris Brierley (UCL Geography) says that "we don't yet know exactly how much effect climate change will have on long-term economic growth—but it's unlikely to be zero, as most economic models have assumed."

"Climate change makes detrimental events like the recent heatwave in North America and the floods in Europe much more likely. If we stop assuming that economies recover from such events within months, the costs of warming look much higher than usually stated. We still need a better understanding of how climate alters economic growth, but even in the presence of small long-term effects, cutting emissions becomes much more urgent."

The researchers also updated the model to take advances in climate science over the past decade into account, as well as the effect of climate change on the variability of annual average temperatures—both of which increased the projected cost of climate change.

The authors calculated the effect of these changes on the 'social cost of carbon' (SCCO2), a crucial indicator of the level of urgency for taking climate action that calculates the economic cost of greenhouse gas emissions to society. Expressed in US dollars per ton of carbon dioxide, estimates currently vary greatly between $10 to $1,000. However, when taking more robust climate science and updated models into account, this new study suggests that the economic damage could in fact be over $3,000 per ton of CO2.

"Burning CO2 has a cost to society, even if it is not directly to our wallets. Each person's emissions could quite well result in a cost to humanity of over $1,300 per year, rising to over $15,000 once the impacts of climate change on economic growth are included," Dr. Brierley said.

While the findings show large uncertainties, the central values were found to be much higher than policymakers currently assume; the US government, for example, currently uses a social cost of carbon of around $51 per ton to judge the costs and benefits of projects linked with greenhouse gas emissions, whilst the EU Emissions Trading Scheme, which covers power, manufacturing and aviation, recently exceeded €61 for the first time.

Study co-author Paul Waidelich (ETH Zürich) says that "the findings confirm that it is cheaper to reduce greenhouse gas emissions than it is to deal with climate change impacts, and the economic damages from continued warming would greatly outweigh most costs that could be involved in preventing emissions now. The risk of costs being even higher than previously assumed reaffirms the urgency for fast and strong mitigation. It shows that choosing to not reduce greenhouse gas emissions is an extremely risky economic strategy."

Former UCL MSc student and study lead author, Jarmo Kikstra (International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis and Imperial College London), says that "it is very difficult to calculate the overall costs of climate change, but increased scientific evidence has improved economic estimates. Climate science on this has improved a lot over the past decade, and the improvements we made with the science do not change the order of magnitude of cost-benefit estimates."

"However, we are much more uncertain when it comes to how the economy will respond to future climate impacts. We reveal that if we look more closely at the lasting impact the climate can have on economies, we find that the costs might increase many times, depending on how much climate action we take."

phys.org

Funny...someone on this thread said there was less for human beings to be uncertain about than ever before.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2021 05:00 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
But still, when the choice is between the life of a non-human primate, and the risk of injury or death to a human child... the needs of the child come first every time.

What relevance does this have to the points that have been raised in this thread? How many human beings are ever going to face a choice "between the life of a non-human primate, and the risk of injury or death to a human child"? Are mountain gorillas roaming the streets of Boston threatening children? Your statement is meaningless. Killing Harambe isn't the issue. Flattening the forests where mountain gorillas live to harvest timber and bush meat is. Wake up.

maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2021 07:18 am
@hightor,
You are missing the point. My ideological narrative is sustainable growth. You put human needs first. You do this thoughtfully, scientifically and will a full honest view of the impacts of progress. Humans create wildlife preserves and often change behavior for the needs of wildlife.

In Boston, the spray to kill mosquitoes because we are afraid of EEE and West Nile virus. In Mexico (my other home), they routinely spray to kill mosquitoes because we are afraid of Dengue (I think it is Dengue).

The whole point of spraying for mosquitoes is to kill mosquitoes. We choose the poison we use carefully to avoid killing other animals as much as possible, and we track the effects of the poison.

This poison to kill mosquitoes saves human lives. This is a good idea (in my opinion).
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2021 07:23 am
@hightor,
Quote:
Funny...someone on this thread said there was less for human beings to be uncertain about than ever before.


People in the past had to worry about...

- Polio, Smallpox and Leprosy.
- Famine and Draught
- Being tracked down by Slave Traders.

The argument you are making here is silly. Your modern life is actually pretty good if you would just step back and appreciate it.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2021 07:26 am
@hightor,
Google Kumbuka the gorilla, similar situation to Harambe, but Kumbuka was fortunate enough to be dealt with by competent professionals instead of trigger happy idiots.

Kumbuka escaped from his enclosure in 2016, he died from natural causes in 2019.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2021 07:43 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You are missing the point.

No, you do a really poor job of making your point. Now you're talking about spraying to control mosquitoes...that's a pretty big jump from not letting a non-human primate threaten the life of a child.

Quote:
Your modern life is actually pretty good if you would just step back and appreciate it.

You're the one being silly. Uncertainty is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. It's something that accompanies self-consciousness. Living with uncertainty and the unpredictability of future events doesn't disappear because I have a home and a car manage to pay my expenses.

So are you going to tell me about the conspiracy theories you think I'm "pushing" or are you just going take some insignificant comment about "uncertainty" and try to make a debate topic out of it?
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2021 07:49 am
@hightor,
The point is that human life is more valuable than animal life.

This isn't a fact, it is a value judgement. But if you agree with this, then we can move on.
0 Replies
 
 

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