8
   

Is the world being destroyed?

 
 
Deleath1952
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 05:55 am
@izzythepush,
How right is izzythepush? He's dead on!
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 06:00 am
The psychology of this thread is interesting. Apocalyptic visions have always been popular. There is a political motivation; an ideology that benefits from the idea that things are catastrophically bad.

It shouldn't surprise you that the people pushing the most apocalyptic visions of doom all come from one narrow set of political beliefs. That is why they reject science when it doesn't fit their ideological narrative, and why they get so upset when someone points it out.

It is fact there are no reputable scientific organizations predicting that climate change will cause the collapse of civilization. This inconvenient truth is the reason that the left-leaning crowd is in such a snit.

It is a fact that many reputable scientific organizations have found that Genetically Modified foods are not only as safe for humans as conventionally developed foods, but that also may be an important part of responding to climate change.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 06:02 am
@Deleath1952,
Deleath1952 wrote:

How right is izzythepush? He's dead on!



Interesting Deleath... I thought you were anti-science. I am actually a little surprised that you believe in Climate Change. (For the record; Deleath is upset at me from other threads because I corrected his bad Physics, I think that is why he is here.)

Do you really believe that the Earth is warming because of human activity?

izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 06:14 am
@Deleath1952,
I take no joy in it.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 06:16 am
@maxdancona,
We’ll have to take your word for it.

I’ve seen Farmerman correcting your bad physics, but I’ve not heard him say anything about Deleath.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 06:18 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

We’ll have to take your word for it.

I’ve seen Farmerman correcting your bad physics, but I’ve not heard him say anything about Deleath.


And I have seen Oralloy correct your bad grammar. What's your point?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 08:06 am
Risky Development: Increasing Exposure to Natural Hazards in the United States

Quote:

Abstract

Losses from natural hazards are escalating dramatically, with more properties and critical infrastructure affected each year. Although the magnitude, intensity, and/or frequency of certain hazards has increased, development contributes to this unsustainable trend, as disasters emerge when natural disturbances meet vulnerable assets and populations. To diagnose development patterns leading to increased exposure in the conterminous United States (CONUS), we identified earthquake, flood, hurricane, tornado, and wildfire hazard hotspots, and overlaid them with land use information from the Historical Settlement Data Compilation data set. Our results show that 57% of structures (homes, schools, hospitals, office buildings, etc.) are located in hazard hotspots, which represent only a third of CONUS area, and ∼1.5 million buildings lie in hotspots for two or more hazards. These critical levels of exposure are the legacy of decades of sustained growth and point to our inability, lack of knowledge, or unwillingness to limit development in hazardous zones. Development in these areas is still growing more rapidly than the baseline rates for the nation, portending larger future losses even if the effects of climate change are not considered.

agu
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 08:12 am
@izzythepush,
If only Farmerman were as admired and well respected as Oralloy.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 08:44 am
@hightor,
Quick Pop Quiz. In which period did more people in the US die from wildfires..

1) Between 1900 and 1920?
2) Between 2000 and 2020?

If you are posting about fires in the context of our modern society with the point that we need to do a better job and land management and policy... then I agree with you.

If you posting this to make the claim that we are headed for an apocalyptic world where all of us are doomed to a fiery death, then you are full of crap. The fact is we have made a lot of progress in the US in developing while controlling wildfires. Yes, we have work to do in managing development and setting policy... but there is no way to claim that we are worse off now then we were 100 or even 50 years ago.

The sane message is that we are making progress, and we can do better.

There is extremism and hysteria on one hand. There are reasonable discussions on how to better set policy based on current conditions on the other hand.

If you are suggesting the second... then we are in agreement. I don't think we are in agreement.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 08:59 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
If you posting this to make the claim that we are headed for an apocalyptic world where all of us are doomed to a fiery death, then you are full of crap.

Why the hell would I even want to engage in a discussion with you if this is how you frame a question? The abstract says nothing about an "apocalypse", and I have made no claim.

Here's another example of your erudite scientific mindset:
maxdancona wrote:
Go stomping off muttering about dishonesty if you like.... but you are still full of crap.


maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 09:15 am
@hightor,
You are posting articles about living in bunkers. And if you read my response to Frank's little tantrum in context, I was showing restraint.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 09:59 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You are posting articles about living in bunkers. And if you read my response to Frank's little tantrum in context, I was showing restraint.


I am not having a tantrum.

Of course there are reliable scientific sources that say we MIGHT tip the balance to destruction.

If you are saying there is NO CHANCE of self-destruction (or even very little chance)...you are not basing that on any scientific stance. For all you, or anyone else here KNOWS, every evolving entity in the entire universe manages to destroy itself and its habitation when it gets sufficiently advanced to do so.

More PEOPLE LIKE YOU may prevail in EVERY society evolving...and that may be the inevitable (or most likely) outcome of evolution. Self destruction may be so likely...that WE could well be THE most advanced life form in our immediate section of our galaxy. (I certainly hope not.)

Pooh, poohing attempts to be cautious is a formula for failure.

Grow up.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 10:04 am
@hightor,
Science must be objective to be useful. Call it erudite if you want.

If you insist that science must always conform to your somewhat extreme political ideology... then of course, people who don't share your political ideology won't support your ideologically based view of science.

That is the point...

1. Science is either an objective way to answer factual questions.
2. Or Science is a ideologically based way to support your political side.

Scientists are saying (with objective facts) that the climate is changing and that human behavior is causing it. And this matches your political narrative... so you accept it. Of course you reject other science that match your political scientists.

So when Scientists are saying this is a crisis, you blow it up into an apocalyptic crisis going far beyond what the science says.

In effect... the scientists are getting drowned out by a hysterical far left. But to the far left EVERYTHING IS A CRISIS, and if everything is a crisis then nothing is a crisis.

If you actually care about climate change... drop your political agenda, listen to other people and work together to find a real solution.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 10:15 am
@Frank Apisa,
I don't see the point in living life terrified by what "might" happen.

We have a problem in climate change. We are part of a human race that spans the globe... the problem will involve working together, making compromises, finding technical solutions, making deals.

If you are part of this process, then great! If you are screaming about how we are all doomed, attacking Trump supporters, whining about corporations and any other pet political peeve, then you are going the wrong direction.

This thread isn't just about Climate Change. We have heard about health issues, plastics, dying insects, fires, water shortages, the end of pollination... a myriad of unrelated problems pushing a vision of doom and gloom.

There is no talk about the amazing progress we have made including...

1) A response to a global pandemic that has saved hundreds of millions of people and is unprecedented in history. A person was 20 times more likely to die of the 1918 pandemic than they are to die of this one. This is a combination of improved public health, more accessible hospitals, advances in medical science including a vaccine.

2) The amazing progress we have made in feeding a growing planet. We have slashed the number of humans that are dying of starvation... it has never been lower.

3) The amazing progress we have made a slashing extreme poverty. We have cut extreme poverty by more than a half in just the past few decades. This is truly amazing.

4) The amazing lack of war in the past 70 years. The number of people who have died from war in the past 70 years is historically low, to an astonishing amount.

This is a dire, gloomy philosophy that exaggerates problem and is terrified of human progress. That is the reason I am responding on this thread.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 10:50 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I don't see the point in living life terrified by what "might" happen.


Neither do I...and my guess is neither does anyone else you are debating. Stop being such an extremist. The issue does not resolve into "Max's way" or "living life terrified by what might happen."

Such extremism is not helpful.

Quote:
We have a problem in climate change. We are part of a human race that spans the globe... the problem will involve working together, making compromises, finding technical solutions, making deals.


It may involve a lot more than that, but I appreciate your opinions about what it involves.

Quote:
If you are part of this process, then great! If you are screaming about how we are all doomed, attacking Trump supporters, whining about corporations and any other pet political peeve, then you are going the wrong direction.


No one here is screaming about how we are all doomed. Your extremism is not helping at all. Try to stay calm.

And anyone not attacking Trump and his brown-shirt morons...is a disgrace to the human race. (Please disregard the "brown-shirt" part if you deem it too extreme.)

Quote:
This thread isn't just about Climate Change. We have heard about health issues, plastics, dying insects, fires, water shortages, the end of pollination... a myriad of unrelated problems pushing a vision of doom and gloom.


Some people see "doom and gloom"...some see a sense of reality. You seem always to see "Max's way."

Quote:
There is no talk about the amazing progress we have made including...

1) A response to a global pandemic that has saved hundreds of millions of people and is unprecedented in history. A person was 20 times more likely to die of the 1918 pandemic than they are to die of this one. This is a combination of improved public health, more accessible hospitals, advances in medical science including a vaccine.

2) The amazing progress we have made in feeding a growing planet. We have slashed the number of humans that are dying of starvation... it has never been lower.

3) The amazing progress we have made a slashing extreme poverty. We have cut extreme poverty by more than a half in just the past few decades. This is truly amazing.

4) The amazing lack of war in the past 70 years. The number of people who have died from war in the past 70 years is historically low, to an astonishing amount.

This is a dire, gloomy philosophy that exaggerates problem and is terrified of human progress. That is the reason I am responding on this thread.


How can you say there is no talk about it...when I've heard you moan on and on about it.

I recently assessed that we humans here on planet Earth MAY BE THE MOST ADVANCED CIVILIZATION IN OUR AREA OF THE GALAXY.

That seems to be a fairly optimistic assessment of our species.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 10:50 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You are posting articles about living in bunkers.

No, I'm not posting articles about living in bunkers. In this whole 25 page thread I defy you to show more than this one which I posted on Saturday. And this is the opening paragraph:

Quote:
“By collapse, I mean a drastic decrease in human population size and/or political/economic/social complexity over a considerable area, for an extended time.” — Jared Diamond in Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed (2005)

People who criticize billionaires for foolishly building underground bunkers believe they can survive the impending doom of climate change by hunkering down on a homestead.

Both groups are attempting to escape the realities of collapse. It’s a race that most humans will likely lose. It’s now a question of whether the species can survive extinction.

On one hand the survivalists (rightfully) poo-poo plans for colonizing Mars as too difficult on a “dead planet” while simultaneously clinging to the belief that for all their beans and bullets, gardens and wells —the hoarded supplies of a prepper will see them through the sixth mass extinction on a dying Earth. It’s the poor-man’s version of an Elysium space station.

The cognitive dissonance must physically hurt.

And let’s admit what no one is saying out loud. The carefully made plans for some sort of Neo-Thoreau lifestyle is more about surviving the collapse of civilization in relative safety and comfort than reducing a carbon footprint — the same attitude that put us in this predicament in the first place.


There are billionaires building underground bunkers and there are "preppers" planning to survive the environmental challenges which await us all if the problem isn't seriously addressed – soon. Many of the changes we see already, especially the melting of the polar ice caps, will not be quickly reversible, no matter what we do. And they will set off a chain of other unwelcome events. The author, by the way, isn't predicting a climate disaster – she's describing the mindset of people who are expecting the worst and explaining why their survival would still be at risk.

Quote:
And if you read my response to Frank's little tantrum in context, I was showing restraint.

If anyone was showing restraint it was Frank Apisa.



maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 11:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
You seem to be in agreement with me (and in disagreement with Hightor).

So I will take it. There is no need to fight if you agree with me on the core issues. Hightor is better looking, I will give him that.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 11:06 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Call it erudite if you want.

I was being sarcastic. Your replies are anything but erudite. They're defensive, doctrinaire, and self-righteous.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 11:11 am
@hightor,
Hightor,

Please explain to me why you are posting on this thread. I believe that you are here to push a rather extreme political ideology... and the one sided arguments and articles are posting haven't changed my belief.

But tell me in your words why you are (still) posting on this thread?

I can tell you clearly why I am posting on this thread... it is to push back against the aforementioned rather extreme ideology.

If you aren't continually pushing a one-sided political ideology that humans are horrible, the world is going to ****, and we are all domed... then please tell me. Because in that case there is no reason for me to be here.

Can you accept human progress in life expectancy, food supply, human rights, peace, poverty, child health... that is happening even in the poorest regions of the globe?

If you were presenting a balanced view... we are making progress and here are some areas we need to work harder on... then I wouldn't be responding like this.

You are posting a one-sided exaggerated negative and politically slanted view of the world. That is what I am reacting to.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2021 11:13 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
Call it erudite if you want.

I was being sarcastic. Your replies are anything but erudite. They're defensive, doctrinaire, and self-righteous.


You forgot moronic, misogynistic and fascist (Izzy is better at this childish name-calling than you are)
 

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