Ah, preferential voting is a funny thing.
Do you vote below the line in the senate? Here we had 78 candidates. It would be so annoying to get down to number 1 and realise there's 2 empty boxes left.
No, I voted above the line: Green (OK, OK! :wink: )
But, as Anthony green was saying on 774 (Melbourne ABC radio) this morning, the systen should be changed. Very few people are going to fill in 78 individual boxes, so they vote 1, along party lines. However, who would have realized, that by voting 1 Labor (& some other parties) that they'd end up with a FF representative (with less than 2% of primary votes) in the Senate? Labor's preference deal worked against one of their own candidates & also the Victorian Greens candidate. What were they thinking?
Anthony G was suggesting that people should be able to vote preferentially for
parties, above the line. The current system gives more power to the parties than to the voters.
Agreed. It makes no sense to have to individually preference candidates from the same party.
Yeah, but that solution screws the independents - can't really lump them altogether. In fact...if you wanted to vote independent even now you'd have to check all 78 boxes. How weird. I'm a below line man myself - but the ACT only had 14 boxes...
But couldn't you just strangle those ALP backroom boys, doing the preference deals with other parties? Anthony (my guide in these things
) says NEVER put any candidate 2nd, or 3rd unless yeou REALLY want them to succeed. In this case it looks like Labor was too clever by half & the result ended up undermining both the ALP & greens candidates! Let's hope that late counting goes against FF. What a stuff up!
hingehead wrote:Yeah, but that solution screws the independents - can't really lump them altogether. In fact...if you wanted to vote independent even now you'd have to check all 78 boxes. How weird. I'm a below line man myself - but the ACT only had 14 boxes...
There's GOT to be some way around this, that also gives the independents a fair go, hingehead.
You should have seen the size of the Victorian Senate voting paper! Longer than the width of both arms out-stretched! No one could have known all the candidates below the line & it would have been very easy to make a small mistake which invalidated your vote.
I think what really cheesed me when I first saw the Vic result was that the green got 0.5 of a quota but was going lose to FFP who got 0.14
ABC:
Nervous wait for SA candidates
Several marginal seats in South Australia remain in limbo today, as the counting of postal and pre-poll votes continues.
Labor leads in Adelaide, Hindmarsh, and Kingston have been whittled away slightly, while in Makin and Wakefield, the Liberals are in front and confident of victory.
ALP state secretary Ian Hunter says the results in the marginal seats may not be known until mid-week but he admits Wakefield is slipping away.
"Look I haven't given up on any seats although it'd be fair to say that Wakefield does look grim, but I wouldn't absolutely write it off just yet, there's a lot of postal votes to come in, and quite a few absent votes, they'll take several days to come in and be processed," he said.
South Australia was the only State to record a swing to Labor, but Premier Mike Rann says the ALP's popularity at a state level had little impact federally.
"It's interesting that the commentators in the other states are all saying it's because the State Labor government in South Australia is popular," he said.
"I think that people, I mean the real issue is, it was about interest rates - in mortgage belt areas there were big swings across the country."
Meanwhile, Family First, the Greens, and Labor are all vying for South Australia's final Senate seat.
Independent and former Democrats leader Meg Lees was not re-elected and counting is continuing to determine her replacement.
Family First leader Andrea Mason says while the party is confident it has won a Victorian Senate seat, the race is closer in South Australia.
"Obviously in terms of preference flow here in South Australia, it was positive for us that the Liberals polled well and that's in our favour," she said.
"We still need to wait though, but obviously that's positive for us."
More ABC:
Lennon says policy to blame for Tasmanian losses
Tasmanian Premier Paul Lennon says Federal Opposition Leader Mark Latham knew all along that the ALP's forestry package was a "high risk strategy" when it came to its potential effect on five Tasmanian seats.
Mr Lennon says the Labor policy was flawed and that he would have attempted to steer Mr Latham away from a policy that would impact on the 20-year Regional Forest Agreement.
The Premier has rejected criticism from Labor MP for Franklin Harry Quick that he did not do enough to support Labor's bid for Federal office.
Mr Quick says Mr Lennon's silence over the Coalition's forestry policy last week amounted to tacit approval of it, thereby fatally damaging the re-election chances of Michelle O'Byrne in Bass and Sid Sidebottom in Braddon.
"I've said that he's got blood on his hands, the blood of Michelle and Sid. You can't refute that," he said.
Mr Lennon says he is not to blame for the party losing the seats.
"I went out there to support Labor as hard as I could," he said.
"Now at the end of the day, Mark Latham and his Federal team made their decision on their forest policy based on what they thought it would deliver in marginal seats in mainland Australia.
"They knew all along that it was a high-risk strategy for Tasmania."
Labor state secretary and failed Senate candidate David Price says the policy was right, but its presentation poor.
"I think it was a good policy for Tasmania but it needed to be explained better," he said.
More more ABC:
Latham tells supporters he wants to remain leader
Labor leader Mark Latham has spent the morning in Wollongong where he has spoken to Labor supporters, telling them he is keen to remain as leader.
For his first public outing since the election, Mr Latham travelled to the Wollongong-based seat of Cunningham, where Labor had one of its few gains in the election, winning the seat back from the Greens.
But for the ALP, there are more losses than gains, with at least eight seats falling to the Liberals.
But Mr Latham has told party supporters he is keen to remain as leader.
"I'm going to stick by it, I've only had 10 months in the job, there's a lot more work to do, policies to be advocating, I'm going to keep going forward," he said.
It is likely he will have enough support in the partyroom to retain the job.
And - to make our American readers happy:
Crocodile attacks two in far north Queensland
Two people who were savaged by a crocodile in far north Queensland national park say they were asleep in their tent when the reptile attacked.
The man and a woman were camping near Lakefield National Park, about 300 kilometers northwest of Cairns, when today's attack happened.
They suffered wounds to their legs and arms but managed to attract the attention of wildlife rangers using an emergency beacon.
Doctor Charles Ellis from the Royal Flying Doctors Service says both have been airlifted to Cairns Hospital in a stable condition.
"They'd been looked after pretty well by the people that are up there."
"Already there were a few national parks people there and they'd dealt with the situation pretty well by the time we'd got there.
"[The victims suffered] mostly fractured limbs and they were pretty luckily basically."
The pair were picked up by a helicopter this morning.
And - Michael shoots mouth off: (I pray he's wrong!!!)
Labor can't win next federal poll, says SA minister
With the polls not even finalised South Australia's Attorney-General, Michael Atkinson, says Labor cannot win the next federal election, due in 2007.
Mr Atkinson says the image of Prime Minister John Howard being the timber workers' friend, not only cost the ALP two seats in Tasmania, but also support in the party's mainland working class strongholds.
"Working class Australians on the mainland looked at John Howard being acclaimed by timber workers in northern Tasmania and I think that image harmed the Labor party," he said.
Mr Atkinson says that trend was nationwide.
"Labor almost certainly cannot win the next federal election," he said.
"We will have another six years, not three years of the Liberal Party.
"Very few seats change hands in federal elections in Australia."
And Carmen:
Labor failed to counter scare campaign, Lawrence says
Labor party national president Carmen Lawrence says the ALP did not prepare well enough for the election.
She has told ABC radio in Perth that Labor's poor performance is not Opposition Leader Mark Latham's fault, but instead a result of the party's failure to sell its economic credentials.
Dr Lawrence also says Labor did not do anything to counter the Liberal Party's campaign on interest rates.
"We could have seen this interest rates scare coming and rather than now saying 'We was robbed' because of the campaign, rather we've got to ask why didn't we anticipate it, why didn't we inoculate against it, and why didn't we attack the Government on the problems they had on the economy, particularly high levels of household debt," she said.
Latham 'responsible'
Earlier, a former senior Labor staffer described the party's performance in the federal election as a disaster, which will see it consigned to Opposition for at least another two terms.
Michael Costello was chief of staff to the former ALP leader Kim Beazley and he says Mr Latham is to blame for the party's crushing loss on the weekend.
Mr Costello told Radio National the party must now face up to its campaign failures or be doomed to irrelevance.
"This was a complete train wreck," he said.
"Labor was comprehensively done, especially in strategic terms, this Medicare Gold was a strategic disaster.
"The last week was the campaign from hell, there's hardly a mistake they didn't make.
"The prime responsibility for this lies with Mark Latham and those who put him there."
Latham backed
Yesterday, ALP secretary Tim Gartrell told Channel Nine the party should rally behind Mr Latham.
"The best way to recover is to have a good look at what happened in the campaign over the coming weeks," he said.
"We'll be reporting to the ALP national executive about what we thought happened in the campaign.
"But the best thing to do is rally behind Mark Latham, he's a good leader, he's now the alternative prime minister, he's not the Opposition Leader, rally behind Mark Latham, and get on with the job of holding the Howard Government to account."
Off to slash wrists...
And - we hafta face it, boils and goils - he won - the Beebs:
Australian PM sets out priorities
A re-elected Howard has a spring in his step
Australian Prime Minister John Howard has said national security and the economy will be priorities for his fourth term in office.
After the success of his conservative coalition in Saturday's election, Mr Howard confirmed he would keep Australian troops in and around Iraq.
Australia has 900 troops stationed in the Gulf on non-combat missions.
The prime minister also pledged to keep the economy strong, and to continue cooperation "against terrorism".
The BBC's Phil Mercer in Sydney says Mr Howard is also expected to pursue closer trade and defence ties with Australia's South East Asian neighbours.
We are not going to use this somewhat better position in a capricious or disruptive fashion
John Howard
In the first news conference of his fourth term, Mr Howard said the strong mandate his National-Liberal coalition received would not lead to radical change.
"We're not going to allow this enhanced position to go to our heads," he told reporters on Monday.
"That would be a big mistake and the Australian public would not appreciate it," he added.
Trade
During the election campaign the prime minister promised to improve his country's anti-terrorism efforts across South East Asia.
Mark Latham is expected to remain at the head of the Labor party
They include plans to deploy squads of Australian police officers in neighbouring countries and to establish a joint intelligence training centre.
Our correspondent says trade is also expected to be a key feature of the re-elected Howard government.
Trade agreements have already been signed with the United States, Singapore, and Thailand. Similar deals with China and Malaysia may follow.
On the domestic front, the administration is expected to try to overhaul industrial legislation to reduce the power of trade unions.
It is also planning to sell off the government's remaining multi-billion dollar share in Australia's national telecommunications network.
Prosperity
The National-Liberal coalition was returned to office with an increased majority in the lower house, as well as a possible 38-seat blocking majority in the senate.
The final results are not expected until later this month, owing to a complex voting system.
Mr Howard has presided over a period of great prosperity - a key advantage in the election given the inexperience of the Labor opposition leader, Mark Latham.
But the issue that gained most international attention was Iraq.
Mr Howard vowed to keep Australia's troops in the Gulf indefinitely, while Mr Latham said he would withdraw them by Christmas.
With friends like MR Atkinson, who needs enemies?
I think Labor should just shut up with this public brawling, chest beating, recriminations ... & do a very thorough internal review of what happened & why. I heard a Beazley (sp?) supporter get all bitter & twisted about Latham around midday on the ABC. Complaining about the wrong choice of leader. Honestly!
Lol! Thing is, he is right. Unless Howard really drops a load - funny, isn't it? One is almost tempted to hope the next three years are really awful....
Yes - it was a silly thing to say, in terms of the troops. But that sort of hard analyis is gonna hafta be made.
I am worried that Hindmarsh and Adelaide will slip away....sorta bright spots in a dark night, they are.
I think the timing is totally wrong. And what could going public with a statement like this mean? Another leadership battle?
Kim again?
What about simply going over what went wrong & taking the time to think through some constructive solutions? Like, EDUCATING the public about Labor's policies, for starters?
Hmm - I hope there won't be another leadership thing.
There won't be. They're not THAT stupid.
Who would stand? Kim? Wayne?
Kim.
Never underestimate the stupidity of those wanting power in a party which is losing!!!
And - Libs and Labor and Dems and so on always hate their own - (the ones competing right there for the goodies) - far more than they hate the opposition, in the up close and personal sense.
