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The coming Oz election thread ...

 
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 12:45 am
Here's a quick story involving the a typical American voter.

I was sitting at the counter in the local restaurant the other day and the guy to my immediate left, a local redneck, happened to glance over at my newpaper and see a picture of John Kerry.

"John Kerry is an idiot!" he said in a typically loud redneck voice, "he says he defended our country. What a bunch of ****!"

"Well, he did serve in Vietnam", I said.

"So what?" Vietnam wasn't even a war. It was a police action."

"Well, regardless of how you want to label Vietnam, the fact remains, he was there and would have died serving in the military of this country. By the way, what do you consider the current situation in Iraq?"

"That's a war! They attacked us!"

"Who attacked us?"

"Sadaam Hussein."

"Sadaam Hussein never attacked us!"

"Well, he's an Arab."

True story. I got up at that point, paid my bill, and left the restaurant before me meal arrived.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 12:47 am
Actually, I shouldn't say "typical American voter"

Change that to "typical Bush voter"
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 01:59 am
Oh boy. We got damn rednecks too.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 02:01 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Silly thing to sit in uncomfortable silence?

Or a silly thing for you to go on your diatribe?

Which one?


Diatribe.

Though - mebbe when they stopped being cross, they thought a bit?

Thing is, they didn't seem to get what I meant. I suppose they weren't thinking, as I was, of the full spectrum of historical reality behind universal suffrage, and were only thinking of Oz?

Actually, when I was a weelowan, only property owners got to vote for the upper house......
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 04:25 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
.... "Who attacked us?"

"Sadaam Hussein."

"Sadaam Hussein never attacked us!"

"Well, he's an Arab."



Scary, Gus, scary. Like scene from Easy Rider.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 04:49 am
I KNEW they'd attack abortion!!!!

This is soooo American!!

Church demands abortion inquiry
November 1, 2004 - 5:59PM

Health ministers should hold an inquiry into the abortion industry, the Catholic Church said today after two federal MPs raised concerns about an "abortion epidemic" in Australia.

Parliamentary secretary for health Christopher Pyne today called for a ban on terminations performed after 12 weeks unless there were exceptional circumstances.

Health Minister Tony Abbott said he understood his colleague's concerns, considering a quarter of all pregnancies in Australia ended with abortion.

But Mr Abbott said it was up to state governments to decide if women should be allowed to have abortions after 21 weeks.

"I can certainly understand my friend and colleague's concerns and I think a lot of people in the community have similar concerns," Mr Abbott told ABC radio.

"He certainly pointed out the oddity of desperately trying to save pre-natal life in one part of the hospital and at the same time taking pre-natal life in another part of the hospital.

"I think that's a perfectly reasonable contradiction for Chris to point out."

Catholic Health Australia chief executive Francis Sullivan called for the issue to be put on the agenda for the next health ministers' summit.

"The country's health ministers should act with a sense of responsibility to uphold the dignity of every life and place on their agenda the establishment of an inquiry into the abortion industry in Australia," Mr Sullivan said.

Mr Abbott said even pro-choice advocates were concerned about the abortion rate, with 25 per cent of all pregnancies ending in terminations in Australia.

But he said the government had no plans to change existing policy about the public funding of terminations.

"We have something like 100,000 abortions a year, 25 per cent of all pregnancies end in abortion and even the most determined pro-choice advocates these days seem to be rightly concerned at the way that the abortion epidemic has developed," he said.

"But certainly the government has no plans to change existing policy at this time."

Australian Federation of Right to Life Associations spokeswoman Kath Woolf said Medicare funding for late-term abortions needed to be stopped.

"But it is not enough to just stop funding," Ms Woolf said.

"The federal government should work to create a community which better supports women and their children."

Opposition leader Mark Latham today said the issue of abortion was one for women and their medical advisers.

"I think we need to accept the right of women to make the choice and we need to respect the medical advice they receive from their doctors," Mr Latham told reporters.

"I would much rather respect women and doctors and medical advice than to go on the advice of a politician like Christopher Pyne.

"So I don't think it is an area where politicians know exactly every circumstance and you can mandate the approach he is suggesting."

Women's Electoral Lobby spokeswoman Eva Cox said the fact the issue had been raised said more about Mr Abbott, a staunch Catholic, and the rise of the Christian right in Australia than anything else.

"The trouble with Abbott is he thinks he can shove his particular moral viewpoint down the throats of everyone else," Ms Cox said.

"He is a fundamentalist, of sorts, who holds a minority view."

Medicare funds around 75,000 abortions a year, 95 per cent of which are performed in the first trimester of pregnancy.

Prime Minister John Howard has previously said the government has no plans to change policy on the Medicare rebate and any views expressed by MPs on the issue were personal.


Little turd, Abbot: Anyone else hear him on AM???

MP calls for ban on late abortions
By Michelle Grattan
Canberra
November 1, 2004

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Latham enters abortion row
Abortion: Your Say
A coalition MP wants a ban on late terminations, adding fuel to the abortion debate.

"I think it's wrong that the law isn't keeping pace with modern technology," the new federal parliamentary secretary for health, Christopher Pyne, said yesterday.

"In one section of the hospital, premature babies are being kept alive at 23 weeks, and in another section pregnancies are being terminated at 24 weeks. The law and technology should be brought into sync."

Mr Pyne was dubious about abortions being done beyond 12 weeks, apart from exceptional circumstances - "and they shouldn't be carried out at all beyond 21 weeks".

Australia's level of 100,000 abortions a year should be tackled - by bringing forward the cut-off time for terminations and by encouraging women to choose other options, he said.

Mr Pyne told The Age women should not be denied the right to an abortion, but it should be a last option - something "women choose not to have, and can't have too late".

Abortion law is a state matter. In Victoria they can be conducted after 28 weeks only if the mother's health is at risk. The Commonwealth is involved in abortion through Medicare rebates. The abortion debate is gathering pace. Special Minister of State Eric Abetz has supported removing Medicare funding for most abortions. Incoming Queensland National senator-elect Barnaby Joyce has said funding should stop, while Health Minister Tony Abbott has intensified his campaign to mobilise the Catholic Church as he seeks to build pressure on the Medicare rebate issue.

The debate has the potential to be divisive among Coalition members. MPs opposed to the anti-abortion push include minister Joe Hockey and NSW Liberal Senator Marise Payne. Liberal women were angered by Mr Abbott's comments before the election, but held their tongues then.

Abbott spoke of being haunted by the "missing millions of Australians".Prime Minister John Howard has said there is no Government move to change policy on the rebate, and any views expressed are personal. There are 75,000 Medicare-funded abortions a year.

Addressing a Catholic conference attended by Cardinal George Pell and other church dignitaries last week, Mr Abbott said he wanted to invite leaders of the church, to consider its role in tackling the tragedy of abortion in Australia today.

"More than a quarter of all pregnancies in Australia end in abortion. We will be a better country, we will be a better people and, frankly, we will have better governments if the church speaks its mind clearly and unambiguously on this" as well as on other "great moral truths", Mr Abbott said.

If senior Catholics were as morally indignant about the "unambiguous moral tragedy" of abortion as about the less clear-cut question of immigration detention, "then there would be change, and change we should have".

Mr Abbott stressed that the last thing anyone would want to do is "criminalise people who are party to abortion".

He said there would be far fewer abortions if premature sexual activity was discouraged, adoption was encouraged as an alternative to abortion and motherhood was celebrated as much as workplace success.

Mr Abbott will not say that the Medicare rebate should not be available for most abortions but his aim is to generate pressure for such a move. He spoke of being haunted by the "missing millions of Australians". He thought everyone should do what they could to tackle the issue.


Latham: (The dead man walking)



Latham enters abortion row
November 1, 2004 - 9:42AM

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MP calls for ban on late abortions
Abortion: Your Say
Politicians should not dictate whether women can terminate late-term pregnancies, Opposition leader Mark Latham said today.

Health Minister Tony Abbott and his Parliamentary Secretary for Health, Christopher Pyne, have raised concerns about the number of abortions in Australia.

Mr Abbott has supported comments by Mr Pyne, who has called for a ban on late-term pregnancy terminations.

The newly-appointed federal parliamentary secretary for health has also said abortions should never be carried out after 21 weeks.

Mr Latham today said the choice about whether to terminate a pregnancy was up to the woman and her doctor.

He said politicians could not know every circumstance behind the decision.

"You've got to respect the right of women to make a choice and you've got to respect the fact that they get expert medical advice from their doctors," Mr Latham told reporters in Sydney.

"It's not for politicians to get in the middle of doctors' consultation rooms in circumstances where people have got to make a judgement about their own future.

"I would much rather respect women and doctors and medical advice then go on the advice of a politician like Christopher Pyne."

Mr Latham said the government had not made a case for changing the rules that govern Medicare funding for terminations. "Until they make the case then you wouldn't want to change the arrangements," he said.

Earlier, Mr Abbott told ABC radio he backed Mr Pyne's concerns about late-term abortions, but said there were no plans to change government policy on terminations.

Mr Pyne told The Age hospitals were on the one hand battling to keep premature babies born at 23 weeks alive as well as carrying out abortions 24-week-old foetuses.

Mr Abbott said he shared the concerns many people had about the 100,000 abortions carried out each year in Australia.

"I can certainly understand my friend and colleague's concerns and a I think a lot of people in the community have similar concerns," Mr Abbott told ABC radio.

"He certainly pointed out the oddity of desperately trying to save pre-natal life in one part of the hospital and at the same time taking pre-natal life in another part of the hospital.

"I think that's a perfectly reasonable contradiction for Chris to point out.

"But certainly the government has no plans to change existing policy at this time."

Asked when he personally thought it was too late for a woman to have an abortion, Mr Abbott said: "I don't much like abortion full stop.

"But obviously abortions at a point in the pregnancy when the child to be might otherwise be viable, obviously raise even more serious ethical issues than those much earlier in pregnancy."

Mr Abbott refused to say whether he had discussed changing the government's policy on abortion with Prime Minister John Howard or if his own department was carrying out any work on a such a policy change.

While state governments set their own laws about when abortions can be carried out, the Commonwealth funds terminations through the Medicare system.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 04:51 am
This'll get better - what's next? No minimum wage? Working three jobs to live, like the US:

Aussies among world's top workers
Natasha Bita and Amanda Hodge
November 01, 2004
AUSTRALIA is a land of workaholics, ranking with the US and rivalling the Japanese as the world's hardest workers.

In its first report on excessive working hours in industrialised countries, the International Labour Organisation says one in five employees in Australia, New Zealand and the US works at least 50 hours a week.

Australian employees work twice as hard as Europeans, with just a 10th of European workers putting in such long working hours. Only in Japan, where 28.1 per cent of employees work 49 hours or more a week and New Zealand 21.3 per cent, do people work longer.

The report has come as little surprise to the ACTU, which says that while Australians do not mind hard work, they are struggling to maintain a balance between family life and growing work demands.

National secretary Greg Combet said that in following the US model of a deregulated labour market the federal Government had stripped unions of the right to collectively bargain and handed greater powers to employers.









Australia now boasted an "army of low-paid workers, others working exceptionally long hours, people under more pressure and no capacity to balance work and family life". "That's John Howard's nirvana," Mr Combet said yesterday. ACTU surveys showed many workers felt their jobs would be at risk if they did not work longer hours.

In Germany, France, Spain and Italy, less than 6 per cent of workers put in a 50-hour working week. The global comparison does not include the self-employed or farm workers, who tend to work longer hours than employees.

The ILO report's editor and senior researcher, Jon Messenger, said yesterday the share of employees working "excessively long hours" had jumped from 15 to 20 per cent in Australia and the US between 1987 and 2000.

The shift towards a 10-hour working day coincided with a jump in part-time jobs.

By 2000, a quarter of Australian employees, 13 per cent of Japanese and 17 per cent of Americans were working fewer than 30 hours a week.

Mr Messenger said the collapse of the standard 38-hour week coincided with the Howard Government's deregulation of industrial relations.

"This move is quite marked in Australia," he said.

"In 1987 it was very clear that 40 hours was the standard. Now you've seen a move towards more workers working excessive hours ? 50 plus ? and more working part-time ? less than 20 hours a week.

"Between 1987 and 2000, what you saw was a substantial deregulation of the labour market in Australia, particularly in the regulation of working time away from industry awards and more and more focus on enterprise-level collective bargaining and individual agreements on working conditions, including working time."

Mr Messenger also blamed intense competition, partly driven by globalisation, and technology, for the worldwide rise of the workaholic.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 04:58 am
"Health ministers should hold an inquiry into the abortion industry, the Catholic Church said today after two federal MPs raised concerns about an "abortion epidemic" in Australia. "

I'm getting utterly sick & tired of every ultra-conservative organization in the country suddenly declaring that it's most regressive policy is a must do!
It's getting bloody tedious! Evil or Very Mad
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 05:12 am
Barricades.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 05:31 am
At page 111, how about we move to a POST ELECTION thread?:

The NEXT coming Oz election thread:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37786&highlight=
0 Replies
 
gozmo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 05:55 am
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 07:23 am
Repeat post deleted.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 07:31 am
This thread has now officially been put to sleep. For the next instalments of Oz politics, go to:


The NEXT coming Oz election thread!:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37786&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0



Goodbye & good riddance 2004 Oz Election! You broke our hearts! Sad
0 Replies
 
 

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