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If Hitler had been smart, would Germany have won?

 
 
Milfmaster9
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 05:07 pm
as am i.. ive a trickle of german blood in me aswell..
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Paaskynen
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2005 03:20 am
Let's repatriate the entire world population to Africa from whence they supposedly originally came.

I distrust those who dream of a Germanic homeland, even today.
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Milfmaster9
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:03 pm
well to be honest, after both world wars germany's borders were doctored pretty badly... poland has for conturies being moving ever more west...
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 07:40 am
Paaskynen wrote:
I distrust those who dream of a Germanic homeland, even today.


I dont understand what you mean by this. Is a German not entitled to dream of Germany as a Frenchman dreams of France or a Finnish man dreams of Finland?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 07:41 am
Finns dream of a homeland less remote and cold, but are resigned to their lot in life . . .
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 07:46 am
Paaskynen wrote:

I distrust those who dream of a Germanic homeland, even today.


Well, my local newspaper is called "The Patriot" - but that's due to 1948, when it was founded.

I am a European, but nevertheless Germany is my homeland (although I admittingly don't dream about it).
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 07:53 am
Setanta wrote:
Finns dream of a homeland less remote and cold, but are resigned to their lot in life . . .


Laughing
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Milfmaster9
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 05:12 pm
well many of my fellow citizens dream of a united ireland.. but it seems rather unlikely at the mo..
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 06:07 pm
they only have to vote for it
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Milfmaster9
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 07:57 pm
well that would be still a long time off... it would require a majority on both sides... there is sweet irony bout the north.. in 1921, one of the main reasons why Carson wanted the north to be seperate from the south was its economy and industry was far ahead of the south.. it took the south over 50 years to catch up with the north,
em... but now we are vastly richer than the north... industry has fled the north due to the 'troubles'.. it has been suggested that we wouldnt be able to affort reunionifying the country.. well the only thing they have better than the south is their road system which till now was vastly superior to our system..

here is an interesting thought.. if de valera joined the war for the british, he could have unified the island with churchills blessing in return for helping the british and regardless, if they won or lost the war, a future occupation by say germany, would incorperate the island into one zone cos the island isnt too big.. either way, unifactation of some sorts has occured..

Lastly, to add to my verbal diarrioah, what if hitler managed to bring Spain under Franco into the war on his side.. the loss of Gibraltar would have been a devestating loss to britains effort in the meditteranian! no?
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 08:35 pm
The Nazis made overtures to deValera and other Irish leaders, trying to induce them to join Germany against the Brits in return for a united homeland. The Irish had better sense and didn't buy it. They suspected that the Allies would win in the end and the old Erin would really get it in the neck then for having been an enemy ally.

The Iberian peninsula -- Spain and Portugal both -- stayed neutral with the blessings of both the Allies and the Axis. It was handy place for clandestine operations. I've heard it said that if you sat at a sidewalk cafe in Lisbon in 1943-44, you were guaranteed to be sitting among mostly spies and secret agents from both sides. That's where secret deals were made and much disinformation planted.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 07:28 am
Early in the war, Winnie tabled a plan to seize the Irish Channel ports, and his cabinet reacted with horror. The military discreetly pointed out to him that they'd been thrown off the continent and weren't certain of being able to resist the Germans if they managed to effect a landing on the Kentish coast--the last thing they needed was to stir up a hornet's nest. The old Imperial Lion, i suspect, was just rankled that he couldn't treat Ireland as though it were private, Royal property . . .
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 09:16 am
They were hardly Irish "Channel" ports Set. And I'm not sure if they were Irish or legally still British territory. But anyway we wanted to use Queenstown and another naval base (forgotten name) to protect shipping in the western approaches. Churchill even offered de Valera sovereignty over N Ireland in exchange which was refused.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 09:25 am
I don't believe the 1922 settlement left the English sovereign over ports in the Republic, although you may be correct in that. I'd have to look it up.
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material girl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 09:59 am
Apparently he was blind for a few months while we were at war.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:09 am
now there's a funny thing

decided to try and find out a bit more on the Irish naval bases we wanted to use by typing sovereignty N Ireland Queenstown etc into Google...and was immediately directed back to this thread.

Some bloke called steve 41oo keeps twittering on about it. Another bloke called Setanta...

What do they know eh?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:07 am
You know, Steve, i would not have considered ports in Ulster to have been "channel ports"--so we misunderstood one another. I was referring to Waterford, Youghal and Cork, and i believe it was to those ports that WSC was referring.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:14 am
They seized Iceland so doing the same for southern Ireland was not beyond the realm of possibility. Given the situation in 1940 I think Churchill regarded Irish neutrality as a offensive not defensive position.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:21 am
Iceland was likely rather charmed by the arrival of the U.S. Marines, given that drunkenness was the most popular indoor sport there at that time. Seizing the Irish channel ports, however, would have entailed a much larger and more dangerous military committment. Even had Eire remained quiescent, the population surely wouldn't have done, and there were many veterans of the "flying brigades" of the 1922-33 civil war on hand to give the English a warm welcome . . .
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:34 am
Setanta wrote:
You know, Steve, i would not have considered ports in Ulster to have been "channel ports"--so we misunderstood one another. I was referring to Waterford, Youghal and Cork, and i believe it was to those ports that WSC was referring.


well so was I actually. Queenstown being at or near Cork.

I only mentioned N Ireland in context of the sovereignty deal between Churchill and de Valera...

confusion on confusion Crying or Very sad
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