What does "libertarian" mean to you?

So we have Eisenhower to blame, and he was a what?

Well, I sad "very little".. Not "none". How many miles of road did the post roads consist of out of the total nationally?

He sure WASN'T a libertarian! lol

http://www.promenix.com/EAIandIHS.doc

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/programadmin/interstate.html

http://idol.union.edu/~cornwelc/a5/penn.htm

An example of the states, especially backward states, being satisfied with their state's rights and isolation. You're saying the Interstate Highway Act was regressive and unnecessary? You'll get a lot of argument that you're wrong on that one. Does it have as much to do with libertarianism or with capitalism? Many private contractors benefited from the surge of highway construction and provided millions of jobs. It's a big picture and sometimes one get's overwhelmed and lost in the scale of it (including, and probably especially, our politicians). Libertarianism is like communism but only in that it would work on a small scale but fails on a large scale. Not to say that the spirit of libertarianism isn't valid and should be considered -- the utopian state just isn't possible just like Marx's ideals are not practical and are anethema to those craving less control, less authoritarianism. It's whether one regards the left or the right as more of a threat of authoritarianism. They both are equally threatening in my estimation but for politicians to give up some of their control is like taking the bone away from a dog. Snarl. Gnash.

I'm with fishin' on Eisenhower -- we elected a Daddy to makes us feel safe.

The Interstate Highway system was a military system primarily! Agrarian and business - secondary, became a citizens system!

You're right, BillW -- the system was for the military defense of the country. It wasn't created just for road tourists, that's for sure.

I never said that. What I am saying is that roads, electrical grids, railroads and everything else we have can very well exist and have existed in the past without the government levying taxes and running the program. It clearly refutes the assertions that we'd all be living on unpaved horse trails and that roads wouldn't exist.

As for as the comments about job creation I'd add "and?" If I got together with several thousand of my neighbors and agreed to fund the building of a highway through my town wouldn't we hire people to do that? Isn't that still job creation?

"The infrastructure connecting today's enterprise business systems is in many ways analogous to the roadways of the United States in the 1940's - a mix of point-to-point file-based interface techniques connecting diverse, stand-alone application systems in batch mode. Most of these interfaces were built as sideline activities to other projects. The result is a patchwork of short term, tactical integration solutions. This approach to integration slows down business processes, is difficult to manage, and is inflexible to change. In effect, it reduces a company's ability to respond to and adapt quickly to business demands. "

fishin' -- all those things existed without the government levying taxes and running things. That's a what if that we'll never know would have worked or not. I don't believe it would -- it hasn't worked in third world countries. If you're going to counter with our "pioneering spirit" and "technological superiorty," the former would mean we'd still be in that conservative yesteryear of dirty roads and horse drawn carts -- the technological superiority has depended a lot on the scientists we escorted over to America after both World Wars (not that we haven't lured some of them over with money for create such modern technologies as string cheese).
Still no real convincing argument here that libertarianism would work somewhere in the past and has less of a change in today's marriage of the federal government and giant corporations. Libertarianism should apply to business as well.

BTW, you're getting your neighbors together to build a highway is far easier than convincing all the neighborhoods in American to get together and build highways. Dream away. I can't even get the home owner association to plant new flowers. Dream. Dream. Dream.

Since you have zeroed in on the interstate highway system let me add my two cents worth. Let's suppose if each state or better still citizens in a locality were allowed to decide whether they wanted to fund a road and to what standard. Do you believe there would be decent interstate highway system?
Despite the fact that there are 50 states it is still one nation and must be governed as such. Imagine what this nation would be like if each state acted as they pleased without regard to the rest of the 50. We would be Europe.

Or New York on the east coast, Los Angeles on the west coast, Chicago in the north, Dallas in the south and the hell with everyone in the middle!

Well, their roads aren't that great and our trains aren't much. Can anybody brag about their great road system?

Your assumption can only be based on the idea that neighbors would for some stupid reason build 1,000 ft. high walls around themselves and never talk to each other. I doubt any of them do "do as they please". It wouldn't be in their own best interest. They would learn to cooperate with their neighbors intead of running to the government to force their neighbors to bend to their demands.

Good point, au. Were highways in thinly populated Utah built entirely at state expense, it is somewhat likely they would be designed for the needs of Utah, not interstate commerce and national defense which was the primary justification for the interstate highway system.

The spirit of libertarianism has worked pretty well in building the Internet and making this very forum a possibility. Where was the Internet when the US Government got out of the business and where is it now? We've managed to build a huge electronic infrastructure and the standards for that were all developed by private industry, individuals and the open market.

Libertarianism should apply to everything. It isn't a concept that applies to only one segment of a society. I've never said it shouldn't apply to businesses.

The internet was developed by the US Army, same with the computer and the relational database.

My opinion is that libertarianism. Is like a nice shiny apple that when bit into turns bitter.