Help. Living w/ newly widowed in-law.

How about this conversation -
You: Mom (or whatever you call her, could be her first name, I dunno), you know how the baby is about to start crawling and things are somewhat untidy in the ___ (name any room)? Can I make a suggestion? I want to help out, so I was thinking, maybe we could spend a day doing a little work.

And see what she says.

She may be happy with your suggestion, or not. But there's no arguing that a home needs to be clean and safe, particularly for a very small child who will soon become very, very mobile.

If she agrees, then you can kill a lot of birds with this stone. She would be doing something for herself and her home, which is always good (sense of accomplishment and all that) and you would be, in part, paying her back for her kindness and hospitality. And then, I have to say, you can stop feeling like you need to ask permission to get stuff out of the pantry. There's nothing like hanging drywall or painting or putting in a new toilet to get one to stop feeling like a guest and more like a stakeholder. The other bonuses are that the house would be slightly less ripped up and perhaps she would drink less if she had a proactive project.

As for the drinking - no, it's not normal. Not that much drinking. She needs help, and hanging drywall isn't going to be enough, but it's a start. Since you are feeling like the lesser person in this dynamic, you would (I assume) feel uncomfortable suggesting to her that she might need counseling. I don't know if your husband would do that, but he might also feel that he can't say anything. After all, you're under her roof. That tends to give one an uncomfortable feeling that you're back in your teen years, no matter how nice the people in the dynamic are.

Oh yes, the other thing - yes, you can afford all of these things, but my suggestion to you is to work on saving as much of this extra cash as possible. Not just for savings bonds for your daughter, but so that you can get a place of your own again. You need to do this, or at the very least you need to feel like the wheels are in motion. No matter how much you do around the home (and I did suggest this, I still think it's a good idea for a lot of reasons), it will probably never feel like your place. For your own sanity, you need to have a nest egg - no matter how small - that's earmarked specifically for your own place.

I like the fixing up idea, IF you feel capable of course...

Is your MIL watching the baby at all? Do you feel comfortable with her watching the baby? I have a rather fraught relationship with my mom, which has remained so, but one thing that has really made her visits so much better is that she can watch the kid and give me a break. There have been SO many times that I wished I had someone available who could babysit at a moment's notice, so I could just get OUT for a minute. Less so now that she's older and more independent, very much so from about 6 months to 3 years.

So that's another intangible benefit, if you feel comfortable with your MIL watching her, though. With the drinking and all the rest of it, do you?

It sounds like this is a solvable problem that will take a little work. The elements sound good, especially how you and your husband are approaching things.

Good luck!

shewolf,

i think it would be best if you guys lived in your own place. you should be setting an example for your kids and showing them how to be responsible...no offense, but living in your mothers/husband's mothers household is not a good example. you didnt sign up to marry his mother with him. you shouldnt' have to live with her, and you DEFINITELY deserve to not live feeling like a guest all the time.

are you working? if not, get a job. what does your husban do? perhaps he can work to get a better paying job, perhaps invest in some training to be able to get a higher paying job.

it is definitely possible to make a lot of money in real estate just off of bankers loans if you know what you're doing also. im just thinking about options. you deserve it to your kids to do everything you can to raise them in their own house and provide for them fruitfully.

good luck and i hope you dont take offense to any of my suggestions

Jespah...

I took your advice IMMEDIATLY. In fact I didnt even take time to post a thank you. And wouldnt you know.. it worked.
Her and I are now working on what would be Jillians room in a month or so. It is the only room aside from the one my husband and i are in that is not in need of a total overhaul. Just full of junk that , granted , she has to make a decision to keep or sell since it belonged to her husband, BUT she and I are moving it out and finding some furniture that Jillian can keep in the room . I also suggested redecorating the out side of the house wich she took VERY well too. In fact we went to a gardening store and she bought several beautiful plants and has begun to take an interest in that. Her and I signed up for a landscaping class at the local community college here so we can work on the yard together.
Maybe all she needed was someone to recognize what was wrong and suggest a few things? Thank you sooo much for that suggestion. I cant tell you how good it felt after approaching her with your idea ,nervous, that she accept it with flying colors.

Soz.

Her name is ann,,, but I still dont quite know what salutation to use for her.. that is another thing I will have to talk to her about. Hehe.. that is COMPLETELY my discomfort and nothing to do with her. But.. she is completely willing to watch Jillian anytime. She gives me and my husband several hours every weekend to leave the house by ourselves or together if we choose. When she has Jillian she doesnt drink. She is completely aware of needing to be sober with her. AndI trust that she does that completely. When she does drink though she will usually have 3 glasses of wine in 2 hrs.. quickly... >sigh< anyways. Having her available to babysit has been a godsend! I love my little girl... but I love my 'punch out' time too. Hehehe.. My husband and i call it our "lunch break". Where we both get to punch out of the baby clock and do things for ourselves BY ourselves. A greedy thing to say , but having her available to baby sit wa one of the deciding factors in moving here. We both knew that we would not be able to maintain our relationship with out off time so that was a HUGE benefit for us. So far.... so right!

Stuh

I dont take offence to anything you say. in fact you make a good point. I sometimes forget that I am teaching her to be a woman, wife, and a member of a family, member of society, mother, and friend all in one. Everything I do is going to effect her outcome some how.
Though, finances were not a huge part of our decision when we moved , they have become so. Simply because we have so much extra money al we can think of is what we can do for jillian. We do have a nest egg set aside for us to buy our own home. Our goal is 2 years. My husband works at the university here in our city and makes 60K+ a year. When I work I make almost the same amount. I am a nurse and have been so for almost 10 years. So it isnt that we cant afford ourselves alone, we just wanted to be able to set up some of the expencive things for jillian now while we can. Like the college fund, savings accounts etc. We also wanted time to look into school districts, neighborhoods etc..before we buy a house.
I had to quit working to be able to safely carry jillian to term because I have had alot of problems in the past keeping pregnancies. I have lost children as far along as 6 months. So me working was not an option during my pregnancy. Though it is now, I have opted to go back to school and maybe pursue my Ph.D and get into surgeory. And living with his mother allows for the money to afford that decision. May not be the best choice, and I hope it doesnt affect jillians 'person' too much in the future but it will show her how to be a confident successful woman since her mother will be a strong influence in the medical field. >crossing fingers< at least I hope it will.

Wow, such great news! Go you, go Ann, and go Jes for the suggestion!!

In terms of what is best for Jillian, the benefits of "grandmothering" have been shown again and again. If it's a horrible, stressful situation for everyone involved, then that is obviously a problem. But there is nothing inherently bad about a family unit that includes a mother, father, and grandmother... and a whole lot that is good. "Lunch breaks" would have been absolute heaven for us back then, and absolute heaven only makes for better parenting.

Do not worry about this affecting Jillian's "person" adversely, and I'll get you the studies to back that up if you'd like.

That's all aside from the benefits of being a stay-a-home mom -- there are benefits to being a working mom, too, mind you, but they are roughly equal and offsetting and it can't be said convincingly (based on studies) that working outside the home is definitely better than staying at home.

In short, sounds like you have the ingredients for something great, good for you for being proactive!

Glad that Jes's idea has proven immediately valuable.

Perhaps the drinking was a symptom of helplessness/inability to deal with rage/disorientation.

You say that your (personally) unlamented father-in-law died in February and that you and your husband are making plans for independent living down the road.

Consider waiting at least two full years from 2/04 before making any more changes. Deaths, births, and moves are all Top Of The Chart Stress Occasions. You all need some coping time.

As for What-To-Call your mama-in-law....why not ask her what she wants Jillian to call her and use that term of address? Or at least use that to broach the subject.

Hold your dominion.

I do realize that I have it VERY good with an extended family unit available at my disposal. I also want Jillian to learn from other women how to be a woman and her grandmother (ann) is such a beautiful poised woman I would love for her to pick that up too. Granted , my husband and I need our space to create and indulge in our life / relationship , I dont see this as a BIG stump in the road. It is just one that takes adjusting to. It is strange for me because I am not blood family , and I feel wierd about being the one who found her husband. Granted, since I didnt have the attachment to him that she or my husband did, it was probally for the better. At least I could kee my head on my shoulders and get what needed to be done DONE. And they didnt have to. But I hate going in the studio, I hate thinking about it and sometimes i feel like I should actually apologize. I dont know why.. maybe that is just a part of the grieving process for extended-family?
I think that either a stay at home mom or a working mom is always a good influence. Staying at home is no better then working and vice versa. I think what makes a good home and a good mother is wether or not she herself is a complete woman and can teach her daughter that same life lesson to the best of her abilities. I would LIKE to stay at home , but my drive for my job is too great. Im the kind of nurse who will work 24 hrs with no question because I love what I do and i live for my work. Now that I have a family that isnt an option anymore, but I can not ignore my profession because it is an extension of myself. And i would not be a happy person with out it. I will just contend for now to take a 'break'.

Both my husband's and Ann's councilors say the same thing Noddy. Not to make any big decisions for at least 2 years. When we moved in our original plan was one year , maybe it will be beneficial for us to wait 2 years. Financially we will have twice as much put away for a home by then. That is an immediate plus. But it may be too much for all of us to go our seperate ways that soon. We are each others back bones right now and I think we should keep that going a while longer.
:-)

I'm glad the two year hiatus is official.

You didn't like your father-in-law when he was alive. Why should you be comfortable with him now that he's dead? Your grieving is more complicated that that of a son or of a widow. By dying the SOB changed your life drastically. Yes, you chose--or agreed to the changes--but changes are stressful (see Paragraph #1).

Sosobe is absolutely right: there is nothing inherently evil about a three generational family unit (particularly when the Fixer Upper is fixed up).
Enjoy the summer. Purge the house of your father-in-law's sins of omission and comission. Delight in your daughter--delight in the ever-available babysitter. Build the savings. Hold your dominion.

Oh my. And here I am, just makin' this stuff up as I go along. :-D

Anyway, my pleasure, I'm soooo glad my suggestion worked for you.

As for what to call her, hmm, RP and I both call our in-laws by their first names. When we were first engaged, that seemed a little silly but we all grew into it and I think that helps to keep us all on a more or less even footing. And, after all, his father isn't really my father, so calling my FIL "Dad" is, well, inaccurate. And, what do people do when both Dads are in the same room? The idea of asking her what she wants to be called is, I think, the best one. She may not have thought of it much, or she may be sitting around wondering why you don't call her Ann or Mother Smith or whatever she prefers or feels is traditional.

Having a grandmother around to help raise a child is a very good thing, and it wasn't that long ago when that was the norm, not only here in the US but pretty much all over the world. It still is the norm in a lot of places. So I wouldn't worry about negative influences from a grandmother being around, at least not for those particular reasons. Vis a vis the drinking, well, sure, I'd be concerned about that (and your assurance that your MIL is sober when staying with Jillian is, of course, the assurance you need), but not about the fact of Ann being Jillian's grandmother or being another woman caring for Jillian. After all, it may not take a village to raise a child, but for sure it takes more than 2 people. It's a good thing Ann is around and is willing to help out.

And the timetable sounds very good. Interest rates will probably go up soon, be aware of that, but in a lot of the US housing prices are most likely about to top out. So not buying right now is probably a good idea. Certainly the less principal you have to borrow, the better.

And yeah, go back to school and to work if that's what you want to do. Studies be damned. My mother worked part-time and then full-time and my father worked full-time when we were kids, and of course we turned out fine. And, I know my mother would have been upset, bored and depressed if she hadn't worked. That would have been worse, I figure. And, bonus, she taught me, by her example, that I could do independent things and not have to depend upon a man for making money or for happiness - that when you're independent, those things come from within, and relationships are the icing on the cake, they're not the meal. :-D

Ya ever notice how no one seems to care about whether the father works? I mean, he's a stakeholder, too, but there don't seem to be any studies splashed on the front pages of magazines and newspapers, and quoted by serious newscasters of the perils of fathers working.

How true, I guess society just EXPECTS a present father to work. no questions asked. Things that make you go HHHMMM....
I got very lucky in the stability Dept when i choose Ian. He has been at his job for several years, completed his degree when he was 21 and makes more then enough money for our little family. He is happy at what he does there for he wont ever leave unless necessary. If it were not for his stability , there may have been times where him and I couldnt stay a-float financialy. Anyone who has worked in the medical field knows about burn out and I suffered that a few times to the point where I changed jobs. His steady income allowed and supported those decisions. Jillian will learn that from him. hehehe... not me.

And no, actually I hated my FIL. He was rude, aggressive, abusive....>sigh< I hate saying that now that he is dead but DAMN i hated that man. He used to abuse my husband when he was little. One time, Ian didnt eat all of his dinner when he was 8 yrs old. His dad stripped him down, removed EVERYTHING out of his room and locked him in there over night. Claiming he was teaching him how to 'appreciate' what he is given. Mo.t.er Fu..ker. I wont get off on a tangent about him though. No need to carry a grudge against someone who I cant work it out with right?
There is a side of me though.... sounds awful...... but I am kind of relieved if not glad he died. I was scared of what kind of person he would be to my daughter. I was truly prepared at one time to beat his ___ if he ever hurt my child. I hate that I even had to think that way . And living in the middle of his things is probally a BIG reason I feel the way I do sometimes. Why i still feel like a visitor, or why I still feel like I am trapped etc.
Things can only get better for all of us though. MIL is learning how to be her own person now and make her own decisions and is loving every minute of it. She is also loving the ability to see her granddaughter every day. Once the major part of the grieving process 'blows over' so to speak things SHOULD get on track for everyone... I hope.

Good for you! Things are looking up...

Just because your FIL was an SOB doesn't mean you don't have to adjust to his absence. Mind, I give you full points for not jumping up and down and singing, "Ding-Dong, the SOB is dead" in front of his son and his mother.

I'm sure in the next two years you'll come to terms with his absence and have all your "might have beens" neatly filed away in an obscure corner of your past.

heh, well then...I guess you're a lot better off than I presumed. My mother supported a family of 4 on a salary of 60k in our own house for 20 years and we didn't feel poor, so I guess I'm a little confused as to why you feel you can't afford to support the 3 of you with double that salary, but you said you were going to move out in a couple years so that won't affect the role model thing too much...just hope you don't get too sick of his mother in that time. good luck

least you have reliable family nearby...

my inlaws are overseas...and i don't see them coming back anytime soon.

im setting up our pc's with microphones so they can talk to the kids via IM.

as for my parents well i've said my bit on that.

> jumping up and down <

Ding-dong the bastard's dead....
Wich old bastard?
The wicked bastard
Ding - dong the wicked bastards deeeeeeeeaaaaaaaad.


oops..... was I NOT supposed to do that Noddy?

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA :-)

Hey, at least it wasnt in FRONT of anyone.. I have my back to them..really... i do. hahaha

That's the spirit. Mourn in your own way, privately and with dignity.

Actually, it all sounds quite good to me. I think the time together is apt to be enriching for all of you, and that pressure won't go over the top because you do have future plans, and MiL will be growing into her new life too. I don't even think three glasses of wine in two hours is horrible. Sorry. Multiply that, though, and I'd agree you might be concerned.