Bernie's In

Well, Goldwater was ultimately very good for the Republican party.

Here is the big question Frank.

Hillary has two things going for her:

1) She is a woman.
2) She is incredibly well connected. She has name recognition and access to donors and knows the power brokers.

I don't consider either of these to be a good reason to elect someone president.

She is lacking in every other way. She comes with scandals. Her mistakes made these scandals worse; she did lack transparency and cut corners in public office. She supported the war in Iraq. She opposed same sex marriage. She is a hawk with Israel.

I don't see how her gender and connections count more than the fact that she is just another politician who molds her views to win votes leveraging her husband to gain higher office.

Hillary is bad candidate. If she wins the nomination I will cast my vote for her (with deep regret).

But now, I am going to fully support the candidate who has principles that I support and stands on them consistently rather than making calculated policy changes to win votes.

Bernie 2016!

Hillary may as well be a Republican.

Goldwater was NOT very good for the Republican Party...or for the United States of America.

I liked the guy...but to suggest he was good for the Republican Party is pretty far off base. He was a disaster for the Republican Party.

Not only is she an EXCELLENT candidate...she is one who can actually win...who can actually keep the Republicans out of total control of the government.

Back whomever you want. That is your right...and I acknowledge that.

But I hope a vast majority of people who support a progressive agenda see the absurdity of that position and avoid it like the plague.

If the Republicans win the presidency, Lash...I think you will quickly see how very wrong you are.

I cannot see how it is possible for anybody in that crazy GOP clown car to win.

Absolutely not piling on you, Frank. I appreciate the dialogue, but I wanted to ask - with Hillary's zillion scandals - this email dump, her refusal to even tell anybody her stance on TPP - a TRULY hated backdoor bit of scummery - her relationship with the big banks, Monsanto, etc etc etc She polls high on untrustworthiness. She seems to be dead in the water, so much so noise is being heard about dragging poor Joe Biden out for the dog and pony show.

Add that to recent comparisons on her VERY late gay rights stance and you have one torpedoed candidate. People don't like dynasties.

I'm telling you. She's going down.

If you are interested in finding out more about Bernie and what's up in the campaign, this is visceral. Unions falling to Bernie. Nationwide.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/afl-cio-endorsement-2016-democratic-primary-119701.html?hp=t2_r

I have no problem envisioning that...IF...someone like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren were leading the opposite ticket.

Under one of those circumstances...I can see one of those clowns not only winning, but winning huge.

I do not feel the slightest hint of piling on, Lash...and I appreciate you discussing this with me and the others with the candor you are showing.

I am trying to show as much candor for my take the matter.

I think Hillary will be the candidate...and although I was hoping she would not run, I will pull the lever over her name in November with as much pride as I pulled the lever over the name Barack Obama in the last two elections.

She is not a darling of the left...and neither was her husband. But her husband did a hell of a lot better job of being president of this country than anything the Republicans have offered in decades...and in my opinion, she will be just as good at the job.

Frank,

Without referring to her gender, please explain to me why Hillary Clinton is an excellent candidate? Can you tell me a courageous public stand she has taken? How about a public policy success? or a diplomatic success? Or an example where she was transparent and straightforward on a department she ran?

Other than her gender, and the prestige that comes from her leveraging her husbands popularity, I fail to see why she should be chosen over any else.

Please explain why you think Hillary is a good candidate, other than her well-groomed political connections (or maybe this is a good enough reason for you).

To me, an "excellent candidate" is one who can win the election for which the candidate is running.

Hillary seems to be drawing huge numbers in Hillary's favor when pitted against almost any of the Republican potential challengers. It appears from most of the polls that I have heard, Hillary will win the election if Hillary runs...and if Hillary is selected to head the ticket.

And since "winning the election for which Hillary is running" is paramount to me, I want to vote for Hillary...no matter who runs against Hillary.

(Whew...not referring to Hillary's gender by using feminine pronouns was a struggle...and probably caused me to make a less than compelling argument, but I wanted to acquiesce to your request, Max.

But I gotta rest before going on. It is excruciating doing this.)

Saw a headline re Biden being about 80% towards declaring. I'm not a full on Biden fan but I like him, way more than Hillary and her point of view du jour. I don't know Webb enough to comment yet.

There's an article re Sanders in the NYT today that might turn some people off but just reminds me of "back in the day". It goes into his revolutionary roots, reminds me of a work friend, now an eminent physician. Anyway, both of these people have grown up, and Bernie appears to have grown up well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/04/us/politics/bernie-sanderss-revolutionary-roots-were-nurtured-in-60s-vermont.html?ref=politics&_r=0

P.s., I'm the same age as Bernie. Long may he endure.

I love Biden, but he has been so quiet as VP, I don't know his positions well enough.

That was funny.

I accept your point. Frank.

If excellent candidate means "the person who can use a political connections and a media image carefully cultivated over years with the sole purpose of getting elected to win" than maybe Hillary is the person for you.

But if excellent candidate means "the person with integrity and principles you believe in and would be a good leader" than you should look to someone like Bernie Sanders.

You seem to take the first definition. I choose the second.

The most important thing said here or anywhere about this - or any - political season. Thank you for saying it, Max.