Bernie's In

@revelette2,

Sanders will support her regardless of any concessions. He's smart enough to know that even a flawed Clinton is FAR preferable to the Republican offerings this election cycle. He'll do exactly what Clinton did for Obama.

Almost all of the Bernie voters will recognize the same thing. Clinton won't need to do very much to get their support; she'll have it because most people aren't "let the world bern" type of people.

Clinton will never get the die-hards; any concessions that she'll make will be viewed through cheating, cynical, manipulative eyes. She'd be better off sticking to the policies that have essentially won her the primary. Any switching positions now, would only hurt her in the general election.

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@ehBeth,

Thanks for that link, ehBeth.
I liked Dean at the time but don't hear of him lately, what with much noise going on in the media and troubles around the world.

His estimation of what is going on seems right.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Well, perhaps Sanders' should explain exactly what position(s) he wants her to change in order for him to activily tell his supporters to support her if she wins the primary. He said his support depends on her, the least he could do is spell out what that change would like in order to make him throw his support her way after the primaries.

It's all been said. He wants her to be tougher on big money - wall street, big pharma,and big oil. He wants her to be against the TPP and any other similar trade agreements. He wants her to push for single payer healthcare and free college tuition. You're heard it a hundred times. He isn't going to get from Hillary most of what he's been promising that he would do for the country (I'm not even going to go into "ending institutional racism" and "making sure the US no longer has the largest incarcerated population" - sheesh Rolling Eyes

). But if he came down off his cross he could be a real influence on making sure she is way more progressive than she would have otherwise been.

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@snood,

Like I said I've been watching MSNBC, the news goes faster than on the internet, I have forgotten it. In any event, it really does not seem as if he will meet her half way but I guess we will see.

I tried to find it on google, but now a Bernie rep is sending out a memo something to do with a picture of Trump and the Clintons, the word, traitor was thrown in. I guess I have to wait until I see it somewhere online to know more. Saw it during an interview with Bernie Sander's wife on MSNBC, cooking dinner so missed some of it.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Like I said I've been watching MSNBC, the news goes faster than on the internet, I have forgotten it. In any event, it really does not seem as if he will meet her half way but I guess we will see.

I tried to find it on google, but now a Bernie rep is sending out a memo something to do with a picture of Trump and the Clintons, the word, traitor was thrown in. I guess I have to wait until I see it somewhere online to know more. Saw it during an interview with Bernie Sander's wife on MSNBC, cooking dinner so missed some of it.

Yeah, people are saying that operatives on both sides - both Bernie and Hillary - are getting nastier,but I honestly think Bernie's people go way farther and get way dirtier. I just really, really hope they don't uncover anywhere that Bernie can be shown to be giving his okay to any of their dirt. I still want to believe he's above all that. It gets harder for me to believe when I see him letting his crowds boo everytime he says 'Hillary'. He doesn't have to do that - he chooses to. He could stop them by saying "No, don't boo,just vote" the way Obama did.

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@wmwcjr,

Count on it.

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@snood,

I don't like his operatives and that is one of my worries, those choices. Hers, I haven't been paying attention to, likely to feel the same way, but that's not clear right now. I read enough politics already, makes me grumpy.

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

snood wrote:

wmwcjr wrote:

Hi, snood. All I meant was that these Sanders Facebook group members might withhold their vote for Clinton in the fall election. But you're right. Mischief of this sort is not limited to one side in a political campaign of this sort. "All's fair in love and politics."

No offense intended to anyone.

I take you at your word that you meant nothing but what you said above, but it still is a fact that articles like that intentionally try to paint the candidate with the wrongdoings of their supporters. And that's bullshit.

You don't seem to have an issue painting Trump with the wrongdoings of his supporters. Good enough for him, but don't touch Hillary?

That's some weak-assed attempt at reasoning, even for you. Trump openly encourages and provokes bad behavior. When you see Hillary do anything similar, let us know.

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@snood,

Can't believe people can't see that Trump is a rable rouser. He personifies it.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Can't believe people can't see that Trump is a rable rouser. He personifies it.

You really believe they don't see it?

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@snood,

Quote:

I honestly think Bernie's people go way farther and get way dirtier. I just really, really hope they don't uncover anywhere that Bernie can be shown to be giving his okay to any of their dirt.

This particular tactic of mud-slinging always makes me laugh. I am pretty sure there is a Greek name for sideways personal attack as a rhetorical device. I will have to look it up.

In case anyone is to biased to see that Snood is slinging mud, just think about this... this is the same sleazy rhetorical device that the Republicans are using on Hillary "I really hope we don't find that Hillary was hiding anything on that email server....".

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
I honestly think Bernie's people go way farther and get way dirtier. I just really, really hope they don't uncover anywhere that Bernie can be shown to be giving his okay to any of their dirt.

This particular tactic of mud-slinging always makes me laugh. I am pretty sure there is a Greek name for sideways personal attack as a rhetorical device. I will have to look it up.

You're an idiot trying to make something of nothing. I said I hope Bernie isn't encouraging any of his follower's dirt, and that's all I meant. I actually want to still see Bernie as a well-intentioned, basically honorable man when this is all over. Not morphed into an over-ambitious, sputtering caricature of himself.

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@snood,

No Snood. You are making a rather sleazy insinuation.

First your idea that "Bernie's People" are going "farther and way dirtier" is ridiculous partisan nonsense. But the then insinuating that Bernie is alleged bad behavior is sleazy. There is no other word for it.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

No Snood. You are making a rather sleazy insinuation.

First your idea that "Bernie's People" are going "farther and way dirtier" is ridiculous partisan nonsense. But the then insinuating that Bernie is alleged bad behavior is sleazy. There is no other word for it.

No surprise we disagree. I think it's self evident that Bernie's people have been nastier and more constant in their attacks. I didn't insinuate anything.

But I can tell you this - I'll be glad when this election is over. I feel like my brain needs a brisk shower everytime I get into this.

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@snood,

Well, Snood. This isn't personal to me. I don't think whether Hillary and Bernie have been nice to each matters at all.

This campaign is about issues and about the direction that this country should take.

I understand the argument about experience, Hillary does have the experience and this is a plus. And sure, having the first female president is also a plus.

But I have also listed the reasons that I don't support Hillary... including her interventionist foreign policy and her unwillingness to stand on progressive issues like single payer health care and social justice.

In my opinion, the likely Hillary Clinton presidency will be a big step backwards in terms of progressive values on many issues, and there will be consequences of her interventionist foreign policy.

I also believe that the Democratic establishment needs to be challenged. Hillary is not a challenge to the Democratic establishment. She represents a push for the status quo.

The rest of the crap doesn't really matter to me. Bernie and Hillary are two seasoned politicians running well-orchestrated campaigns. I am not really worry about their feelings getting hurt.

The victim narrative from Hillary bugs me. But that doesn't really matter... it is just a political strategy like all the others (and Bernie is using political tactics in the same way).

I had the impression that you are pretty progressive in your political positions, Snood. I don't know if this is accurate or not (and I haven't gone back to before this primary to check on this). In two years, it might be interesting to see if you still feel that Hillary was a good candidate... or if my opinion of her might be more positive after she has spent time in office.

There were many aspects of the first Clinton administration that I didn't like at all.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

In two years, it might be interesting to see if you still feel that Hillary was a good candidate... or if my opinion of her might be more positive after she has spent time in office.

Well, at least that future scenario gives us both credit for having somewhat open minds, so I'll leave it at that.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

I take you at your word that you meant nothing but what you said above, but it still is a fact that articles like that intentionally try to paint the candidate with the wrongdoings of their supporters. And that's bullshit.

Agreed that this is not on Clinton but there is a PAC aligned with Clinton that just paid millions a few days ago to unleash anti-bernie trolls on the internet. Their goal was to "push back" on Facebook, Instagram etc and this might be a result of their actions (this is conjecture, I do not know).

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@snood,

What I heard was that were posting porn etc (including one report of kiddy porn) to the groups and then reporting the groups en masse to get them taken down.

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@Robert Gentel,

Ugh.

I suppose this stuff isn't new, re calculation on how to decimate an enemy, but it seems even larger than before, a kind of gaming. Not that gaming is a bad word in itself, but is to me in this context.

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@Robert Gentel,

Wow. That's significantly worse than what my friends told me happened to a couple of our sites.

One case: Hillarybots infiltrated our page, pretended to be a Bernie supporter and threatened to kill "a Clinton supporter" and we were shut down.

If HRC thought she'd get Bernie votes, she's lost her mind.

1 Reply

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