Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 06:23 pm
I'm not voting for or against any candidate on the basis of a free trade agreement with tiny Panama. That's just ludicrous. What comes next, voting for a President because a pothole got repaired on your street?
reasoning logic
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 06:29 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
What comes next, voting for a President because a pothole got repaired on your street?


You must have never had to deal with pot holes like me.
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP.M435f066bf8132ded7b941dab27a75ee1o0&pid=15.1&rs=1&c=1&qlt=95&w=171&h=114#inline
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  4  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 06:29 pm
@Blickers,
I think you are simplifying the issue.

Sanders' point is that the only reason the US govt is even considering an FTA with Panama is because corporate tax evaders want to more easily evade tax.

The issue isn't the FTA per se, it's whether you want a government that does its best to aid business to avoid contributing to national income and transfers the tax burden to the middle classes (or simply provides fewer and fewer services and invests less and less in infrastructure).

Or are you happy with the best government money can buy?
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 06:55 pm
@hingehead,
Did anybody mention that we made a similar trade deal with South Korea as well? And the names released as using Panama as an offshore haven for money are mostly foreign anyway, including a couple of real close friends of Putin. In fact, Russia Today is all pissed off about this.

Anything that pisses off Russia Today can't be all bad.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 06:56 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Bernie can't do it alone. He needs congress.

True, but he is the only candidate even willing to acknowledge the problem.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 07:46 pm
Bernie wins Wi.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  4  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 07:50 pm
@Blickers,
You have a bunch of bilateral agreements.
https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements

Interesting list - I can see political motivations, and trade motivations and corporate lobbying motivations. Why wouldn't the Panama FTA include greater tax accountability? Australia had to change it's copyright law for theirs.

Quote:
Anything that pisses off Russia Today can't be all bad.

But it can be 95% bad.

So you don't think $100b per year in tax evasion through tax havens concerns you?

Thanks for your indepth analysis.
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 08:09 pm
@hingehead,
But there are other reasons for making these trade agreements. If one of those countries turns out to be a tax haven, maybe it wasn't that good of an idea to have one with them. Either way, I'm not that concerned about it in the greater scheme of things, no. Hell, I can take something about most any country we are having trade agreements with, and start telling people that they MUST vote for my candidate because this country or that country has something bad about it we don't like.

Political partisans frequently take this annoying tack that you just employed. When you come up with something more important than a trade agreement with Panama, be sure to give us all a holler.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 08:12 pm
Networks: Bernie Sanders wins Wisconsin primary
Source: USA Today

Sanders entered Tuesday's contest on a winning streak, but one that’s hardly denting Clinton’s delegate lead in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/04/05/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-wisconsin-primary-democrats/82669988/

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 08:12 pm
Bernie just won Wisconsin by a substantial margin. So what do you see on Google news?
Anti-Trump Vote Coalescing Around Ted Cruz, Preliminary Exit Poll Results Show
ABC News - ‎1 hour ago‎
Preliminary exit poll results suggest a coalescing of the anti-Trump vote behind Ted Cruz in the Wisconsin presidential primary - raising the specter of a ceiling for Donald Trump.
Related
Donald Trump »
Ted Cruz »
Wisconsin »
An uncharacteristic underdog, Trump faces a key test in Wisconsin primaryLos Angeles Times
Cruz aims to shake up GOP race with Wis. win over TrumpUSA TODAY
Opinion:Maybe Kansas City dodged a bullet when Cleveland nabbed the GOP conventionKansas City Star
In Depth:Politics|Ted Cruz Wins Wisconsin GOP Primary, Pressuring Donald TrumpNew York Times
Live Updating:Wisconsin primary live updates, results: Exit polls have good and bad news for Donald TrumpOregonLive.com
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 08:17 pm

Almost Every Major Poll Shows Bernie Sanders Challenging or Defeating Clinton and Republicans. Here’s Why

08/05/2015 06:58 am ET | Updated Aug 05, 2015
35 K

H. A. Goodman
Columnist published in The Cleveland Plain Dealer, The Baltimore Sun, The Hill, Salon, The Jerusalem Post www.hagoodman.com

Bloomberg via Getty Images

American politics is never static. Similar to the value system of certain presidential candidates, it’s in a never-ending state of constant evolution. For this reason, “Dewey Defeats Truman,” “We still seek no wider war,” and “They hate our freedoms” are time capsules of American history seen though the lenses of hindsight and reflection.

We now have our first African-American president in his second term, we have an embassy in Cuba, and gay marriage is a right. American politics, and the world, can change in the blink of an eye.

Ironically, there are certain liberal voters in America today more interested in sharing memes on social media (mocking their political rivals), than in actually rallying around a politician who is a genuine and authentic embodiment of their acknowledged value system. To these people, Bernie Sanders can’t possibly win, even though he championed gay rights when others needed to “evolve,“ and even though he voted against Iraq, when others deemed their vote a “mistake.”

Luckily, there are a great many other voters willing to imagine a future without Wall Street greed and rampant income inequality. Fortunately, “Bernie Sanders Can Become President” has replaced “I like him but he can’t win.”

Democrats who are proud of their progressive values are filling arenas to hear Sanders speak in a direct manner (while others dodge questions) on contentious issues like Keystone XL and the Trans Pacific Partnership agreement. While the FBI is currently investigating the email security of one candidate, Bernie Sanders is narrowing Clinton’s lead nationally and defeating Republicans in other polls. Like Brent Budowsky writes in The Hill:

The fact that Sanders beats Walker by six to seven points, depending on whether all voters or likely voters are counted — a near-landslide margin in a general election — makes it clear that the Sanders surge is more than a surge against Donald Trump, but move that makes him competitive with all Republican candidates.

Polls once extolling Hillary Clinton’s enormous lead over Sanders are now dwindling for the same reason Sanders beats Republicans in various other polls: Americans have had enough of dynasties, scandals, wars, and Wall Street corruption. I will be voting for Bernie Sanders because I too have had enough of endless wars, and Bernie says “I’ll be damned” if more Americans are sent back to fight in the Middle East. I’ll also be voting for Sanders because like the polls illustrating his lightning fast surge, more and more Americans have had enough with a two-party system that doesn’t give people a choice. I want my Democratic nominee to vote against counterinsurgency wars and vehemently oppose environmental disasters in the making like Keystone XL, not evolve towards the most politically expedient position available at the time.

As for data indicating Bernie Sanders can win the Democratic nomination, the Huffington Post explains how quickly he’s narrowed the lead in New Hampshire in an article titled Bernie Sanders Is Narrowing The Gap With Hillary Clinton In The Granite State:

Bernie Sanders is closing in on Hillary Clinton, according to new polling from New Hampshire.

In a WMUR/University of New Hampshire poll released Tuesday, the Vermont senator is in a statistical tie with the Democratic presidential frontrunner, trailing her by six percentage points, which is just within the poll’s margin of error...

Sanders and Clinton are virtually tied in terms of net electability, polling at 30 percent and 32 percent, respectively.

With Sanders already surging in Iowa, and now virtually tied with Clinton in New Hampshire, it’s important to remember that Vermont’s Senator is doing something most observers once thought to be an impossibility. He has a great chance of winning the first two contests on the road to the Democratic nomination, while his challenger deals with subpoenas from Congress and other scandals. Every classified email uncovered by the FBI dooms one candidate, while paving the way for Sanders.

As for how Sanders does against GOP challengers, Quinnipiac’s recent swing state poll explains that he actually performs better than Hillary Clinton in battleground states:

In several matchups in Iowa and Colorado, another Democratic contender, U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, runs as well as, or better than Clinton against Rubio, Bush and Walker.

Clinton gets markedly negative favorability ratings in each state, 35-56 percent in Colorado, 33-56 percent in Iowa and 41-50 percent in Virginia.

“Hillary Clinton’s numbers have dropped among voters in the key swing states of Colorado, Iowa and Virginia. She has lost ground in the horserace and on key questions about her honesty and leadership,” said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.

Again, it’s important to note that Bernie Sanders now performs as well, or better in swing states, and this reality took place just several months after announcing his presidential run. He also beats Republicans in direct matchups and it’s still early.

We’re 459 days from Election Day.

So much for the phrase, “He can’t win.”

Also, if Quinnipiac and the University of New Hampshire weren’t enough, there’s a recent Gallup poll explaining that all Sanders needed was a little name recognition:

PRINCETON, N.J. — Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders’ favorable rating among Americans has doubled since Gallup’s initial reading in March, rising to 24% from 12% as he has become better known. Hillary Clinton’s rating has slipped to 43% from 48% in April. At the same time, Clinton’s unfavorable rating increased to 46%, tilting her image negative and producing her worst net favorable score since December 2007.

Sanders is still an unknown to a majority of Americans, with just 44% able to rate him compared with Clinton’s 89%

Already, with only a limited amount of media coverage, Bernie Sanders has captivated the hopes of millions of Americans.

This too, will happen with African-American, Latino, and other voters the more that Sanders’s policies and value system becomes better known and more recognizable. Killer Mike has officially endorsed Bernie Sanders, and his endorsement means far more than certain polls (cited gleefully by naysayers) based primarily upon name recognition. Combine this with the fact CNN recently stated “Bernie Sanders would beat Donald Trump,” and a Sanders presidency is no longer a pipe dream; it’s a reality that could take place based on knowing more about Bernie Sanders.

Finally, perhaps the most noble and courageous act by a politician in the last 30 years was Hillary Clinton’s attempt at health care reform in the early ‘90s. I have and always will admire Clinton’s work, at that time and in that moment of U.S. history, on health care and her courage in battling a ruthless Newt Gingrich and other Republicans on that issue. However, the former First Lady’s political evolution during the past couple of decades has made her a completely different politician today. While almost every Clinton supporters cites a Real Clear Politics poll indicating an enormous lead within the Democratic Party, they also ignore one glaring opinion piece located within Real Clear Politics.

In a Real Clear Politics article by Debra Saunders titled Why Voters Don’t Trust Hillary Clinton, the primary reason polls are shifting towards Bernie Sanders is addressed:

Voters in Colorado, Iowa and Virginia think Hillary Clinton is not honest or trustworthy...

Clinton’s conduct is catching up with her...

An inspector general has asked the Department of Justice to investigate. It seems a sampling of 40 emails Clinton sent as secretary of state found that four contained classified information that should have been labeled “secret.” The only question is: What took so long?

Therefore, within the same website cited to declare Clinton’s insurmountable lead and inevitability, there’s also a piercing article questioning Clinton’s honesty.

Honesty and a genuine value system are the primary reasons Bernie Sanders is gaining in the polls and the primary reason people of all backgrounds will choose him over Clinton or any GOP nominee in 2016. These traits are the reasons polls are ever-changing, since there’s no poll that asks, “What’s in the heart of your future president?” Since adherence to principle is a novelty in this day and age, Bernie Sanders reminds voters of an ideal. It’s this ideal that will enable Sanders to surge past Clinton and towards the Democratic nomination. It will also help him win the White House, since Bush and other Republicans must still answer tough questions about Iraq, Wall Street, and income inequality.

0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 08:42 pm
@Blickers,
Hey Blickers

You've completely misinterpreted my intention.

I was never saying YOU MUST VOTE FOR BERNIE BECAUSE: PANAMA.

I'm saying that he's worth consideration because he is the only one in D.C. pointing out the conflict of interest between government and business.

It was in direct response to your 'pothole' comment - which is why I said 'I think you are simplifying the issue'.

I don't consider myself partisan although I am definitely left leaning (whatever that means). And worse for you (or probably better) I'm not even American.
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 08:44 pm
@hingehead,
Just re-reading what I posted and this
Quote:
the conflict of interest between government and business


Made me think that I've kind of got that wrong, (semantically? etymologically?) The problem is that there no longer seems to be a conflict of interest between government and business. Government is just business's way of ordering the world to suit their current requirements.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 08:55 pm
@hingehead,
Every Democrat realizes that business shouldn't always have its way. Although since a big part of the president's job is promoting job creation, he/she can't be opposed to business flourishing, either.

I just think that of the things that will determine my vote, the Panama trade deal is not one of them. With Republicans all trying to end Social Security and Medicare as we know it, to shut down a woman's constitutionally protected right to terminate a pregnancy if she so chooses, and to insist that Keynesian economics does not work despite the evidence to the contrary, (not to mention their eagerness to put American boots on the ground in the Middle East again), I can't get excited about a bad trade deal with Panama. Unless somebody got caught taking a direct bribe, I don't care.
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 09:08 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
Unless somebody got caught taking a direct bribe, I don't care.


Wow. Any other form of corruption is fine then?
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 09:17 pm
Quote:
Democrats award most of their delegates by congressional district in Wisconsin and in other states. Usually that doesn’t matter much because the share of delegates each candidate gets in a state winds up closely matching their statewide share of the vote anyway. Sometimes, however, a candidate gets lucky or unlucky because of rounding.

Right now, Sanders looks to be getting a bit unlucky in Wisconsin. There are six delegates available in each of the 1st, 6th, 7th and 8th congressional districts. He leads Clinton in each one, but is splitting those delegates 3-3 with her in each case because his lead isn’t quite large enough for a 4-2 split. That could change as more votes are reported, of course.


source
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 09:22 pm
@hingehead,
Compared to maniacs who want to do away with Social Security and Medicare and pour more American troops into the Middle East, I just don't have the time to care about trade deals with Panama. Can I make that more clear? What part are you failing to grasp?
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 10:45 pm
@Blickers,
Well if you don't have time to care maybe shouldn't bother posting rejoinders to people who do.

Call it a lifehack Wink
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 10:59 pm
@hingehead,
This is my country, my election to choose, and I will take the time to tell someone that the "issue" they are pushing is not worth much on the merits, compared to what else is at stake.
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 11:16 pm
@Blickers,
Bored are you?
0 Replies
 
 

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