Elizabeth: The Virgin Queen

Actually, Elizabeth wasn't a virgin. My great-great-great grandfather NickFun !V banged her a few times. He was always careful to us the Royal Condoms to prevent any damage to the Queens reputation.

You and Gus are one and the same. Never a serious moment.

The Royal Condoms? I bet NickFun is actually prince Harry.

One thing that was a bit "unhistorical" about Liz, is the fact she didn't cut her hair as a protest sorta thing, but because she had some sort of strange disease. Can't remember what. Hmmmm. Maybe it was STD.

It was a great movie, but let's face it. There was no way she was a virgin queen. She wasn't even gay. As for the haircut, it was probably lice.

Ya know, Cav. I wondered about the head vermin. No, I'm sure Elizabeth wasn't a virgin. That's why they named Virginia after her.

In the days when women wore patches (beauty marks) it was said that they covered pimples which manifested due to lack of baths. I don't know about that. Trying to remember where I read that bit.

yes that's right Letty about the beauty spot patches.

I went on a really interesting trip round the Shakespeare properties in Stratford a few years ago and one of the guides described how in Elizabethan times the bath was an annual affair in June, whether you needed one or not , the bath was filled and the father of the house went first, followed by wife, children, and servant in order of seniority (same water - or mud by then?)

That's why people married in June - they were clean, they put clean summer clothes on and got married before they got dirty again!

Elizabeth had several serious suitors but knew that with marriage she'd lose her power and didn't intend that to happen. She was quite a scholar too. Virgin? i don't know.

Samuel Pepys knew about condoms - they used a pigs bladder - so they probably did in Elizabethan times.

Samuel Pepys wrote about catching an STD because he hadn't realised that a woman was a whore so he hadn't used the pigs bladder.

Vivien, in addition to being a digital artist, you are an accomplished historian. How very interesting about the June bride. I also wondered about the white, chalk like preparation on the face of Elizabeth, and thought about the mimes.

That which would horrify us today, was simply accepted in that era. So many traditions that Americans do not understand, have been imbedded in the casual of our cultural.

Thank you Vivien.

Hmm - I think we shall never know whether any of the special relationships she had with men (NOT generally her official suitors, whom she seldom met) were consummated.

Certainly, as a young woman, many rumours circulated about her having given birth secretly - but, vicious and politically motivated rumours were not invented by us!!! A chief suspect for father was her brother Edward's uncle, her first stepmother, Jane Seymour's second brother, - and her fourth stepmother, Catherine Parr's, third husband, and one of the Lord Protectors of England, Tom Seymour. There has NEVER been any proof of such. (Details of family and power were rather complicated in Henry VIII's court!)

I certainly do not think that the brilliant, scholarly, and very likely already very practised in dissimulation and strategy (through both brains and necessity - her childhood and young womanhood was perilous indeed, and remained so during her long years as queen - 1558 to 1603) Elizabeth had any sort of epiphany about needing to metamorphose to cool queen!

She does seem to have learned to become more ruthless as they years went on.

and you know, Deb. It really doesn't matter, does it--the consummation. The woman was strong and survived against all odds. She wasn't all goodness and light, but monarchs, rulers, seldom are.

"Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown."

And to think that I almost deleted this thread.

Thank you all for the information, the ribaldry, the constant reminder that we are indeed all in it together.

Lol - press a button about Elizabeth I, - or Shakespeare's England generally - and out it rolls!

I keep telling people to read Dorothy Dunnet - and no one does! - but if you are interested in this era her Game of Kings series gives you the most fascinating (and historically very accurate) insight into politics and life and morals of the era in Scotland, Malta (Knightsof St John), France, through the Arab countries of the Mediterranean and Russia - a wonderful broad sweep of life at the same time in these places - all wound through with a hair rasing, breathtaking story and a writing style that is superb, economical, inventive .... ummm I think you get the messsage i love her books! Her hero is pretty fantastic too!

Mary Queen of Scots as a child and Elizabeth as a very young woman weave through the story with good insights into the political intrigue going on in Scotland, France and England

Well, Vivien, I just heard about the book this morning. At this point in my life, I have what could be best described as reader's block.

Readers block, yes!! That is the correct diagnosis of my condition. Tell me is there something I can take?

Elizabeth, considering her situation, was one of the great political thinkers of all time. Against all odds, she kept her head(literally) and ascended, and retained, her throne. I have know doubt that she had lovers who thought that her seduction would bring them power, and that she turned the tables on them and used it for her own gains. She outplayed the players.

Maya, welcome to A2K. Yes, take two pages then call me in the morning.

I read one time that Elizabeth's makeup was one inch thick at the time of her death. A little soap and water would have done her wonders.

More here: Elizabethan Make-up :wink:

Great link, Walter. Talk about a royal make-over.

The royals have never been known for their fashion sense.(uh,oh, pull in those claws). But that link is a good one. Lead and mercury were, for many decades, centuries even, used for cosmetics. There was a time, not to many centuries ago, that the exposed breast was essential, and what some people think are heirloom earrings are actually heirloom nipple rings. So all this piercing thing by the youngers is actually a trip on the wayback machine.