Another day when there is no God

@ossobuco,

I moved or was moved around as a child, my omments re my family, rather reclusive as just the three of us doing all that moving, and with a boston irish mother born in 1901 and all that means re her thoughts: she was made valedictorian of her class, but, much as I did love her, never got very curious. My father was a philo major. This explains why I'm goofy.

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@hingehead,

The question that arises is: Is it reasonable to conclude that because “bad things” happen…that means there are no gods.

I come up with an unqualified “no.”

I can see absolutely no way to logically conclude that it does.

Do you see a logical way to infer that no gods exist because “bad things” happen?

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@ossobuco,

Funny, I got a B in religion with Sister Mary Anthony, the one who said you couldn't enjoy sex, whatever words she used for this, in marriage. I think my B was not for disagreement as I didn't know any better. I was used to getting A's. Must have been some other question.

I went to a catholic college for my first year before I switched, did wildly well except that I got both an A in logic and a D in theology. I must have said something wrong. I was still a believer then. It didn't occur to me to argue the grade.

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@hingehead,

Huh? whose self loathing?

Ah, I get it now.

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@ossobuco,

I wonder what sort of person can get an A in both? Or is that me being gormlessly snide?

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That bad things happen wipes out the personal god, no discussions necessary. That the universe works with no detectable magic and that the Earth's time is finite makes the impersonal god bite the dust.

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@edgarblythe,

Of course there is a God. It is called Truth and Right.

For example try walking off the top of a building and straight across to the building across the street.
The God of Truth will punish you by making you fall to the street below.
And make a wrong choice by walking off the building and you will be punished by the same God.
Do the right thing and take the stairs down and you will be rewarded by that same God.

Now tell me who made those laws that you must obey or be punished?

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@jamesg1951,

You go with that James. Good luck to you. PS. Please don't walk off any buildings.

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@hingehead,

no, no, I get you.

I might may have been at the beginning of disquiet (me meant to be a nun thing from that high school, note Sister Willhelma when I interviewed her for the paper and she interviewed me, wanting to be a doctor and suggested I had a vocation), but I still believed. That got rockier and probably started earlier, that I didn't just get.

Now I see it as recruiting.

Which is too bad. I liked some of those women.

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@ossobuco,

I am pretty sure many of those women are sincere and good people.

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Frank wrote:

You are showing that you are even further over the top with each post, Timur. Your disdain for me is absurd. You do not know me well enough to come to the kinds of sick conclusions you have come to.

You seem to be losing it, Frank.
Must be senile dementia as I stated already, making assertions you cannot back up, contradictory statements, disconnected associations.
My disdain for people like you is based in the inherent pretentiousness of your assertions. I don't need to know you more than I do already. The statements you make talk for themselves.

As for the rope, I know you know the ropes of being deceitful.

and wrote:

Just trying to jostle you to sanity.

As if you knew what sanity is!
I'm not indulging in your sanity, which consists in repeating your worn out mantra about guesses.

Frank wrote:

Way over the top, Buddy. Stop it...it is only making you look bad. Really. You should not have started this, but now that you have, salvage as much dignity as you can.

I'm the only judge of my dignity and if I look bad or not.
Defending my ideas and opinions can never look bad.

and wrote:

Wow...you've lost it completely. I didn't think this would happen...or that I would find it so amusing.

So, you'll continue to amused, while I'll be stating what a pretentious little **** you are.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

That bad things happen wipes out the personal god, no discussions necessary. That the universe works with no detectable magic and that the Earth's time is finite makes the impersonal god bite the dust.

Ahhh...so we've narrowed it down to personal gods. And you are saying that because "bad things" happen...there can be no personal god...no discussion necessary. In other words, you cannot even imagine a personal god that allows bad things to happen for a purpose that might humans cannot understand.

C'mon, Edgar. You are better than that.

And there is nothing about the "way the universe works" that demands that there be no gods.

You know that.

Why insist on something illogical...in the name of logic?

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@timur,

timur wrote:

Frank wrote:
You are showing that you are even further over the top with each post, Timur. Your disdain for me is absurd. You do not know me well enough to come to the kinds of sick conclusions you have come to.

You seem to be losing it, Frank.
Must be senile dementia as I stated already, making assertions you cannot back up, contradictory statements, disconnected associations.
My disdain for people like you is based in the inherent pretentiousness of your assertions. I don't need to know you more than I do already. The statements you make talk for themselves.

As for the rope, I know you know the ropes of being deceitful.

When I set out to toy with you...I did not realize it would destabilize you this much. It is fun to watch...but sad at the same time.

Quote:

and wrote:
Just trying to jostle you to sanity.
As if you knew what sanity is!
I'm not indulging in your sanity, which consists in repeating your worn out mantra about guesses.

Nothing worn out about them.

You seem to be finding it tough to find new things to say about me. Give it up. You are only making a fool of yourself...and providing entertainment for me.

It is becoming more and more evident that I own you.

Quote:

Frank wrote:
Way over the top, Buddy. Stop it...it is only making you look bad. Really. You should not have started this, but now that you have, salvage as much dignity as you can.

I'm the only judge of my dignity and if I look bad or not.
Defending my ideas and opinions can never look bad.

Oh...it can.

And it is.

Perhaps you are not the best judge! Wink

Quote:

and wrote:
Wow...you've lost it completely. I didn't think this would happen...or that I would find it so amusing.
So, you'll continue to amused, while I'll be stating what a pretentious little **** you are.

Thanks. And it is amusing.

Another foolhardy thing you have started that I will finish!

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Doesn't the fact there is no detectable magic ordering the universe and that gods are made up from imagination, plus genocides and such occur - Anybody believing there could be a god is not paying attention. It's anthropomorphism, fear, ignorance, what you will. But there is not and never was and never will be any form of god.

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If anyone could come up with one logical reason why there is or could be a god, they have not shared it with anyone I have ever met.

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Re the religion takes here, I don't care much what anyone else thinks, much less one who posts a thousand or more times about it. Or those of us who try to quiet him, including me.

I understand belief.

I also understand making fun of it.

Carry on, nurses.

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In Huck Finn, Mark Twain tells the tale of a couple of con men who promoted a "3 nights only!" staging of a shakespearian play in some small Arkansas river town. The first night half the town came, and then recommended the event to the half that didn't. The second night the other half went. The whole thing was in fact quite terrible, so, on the third night the WHOLE town came, well armed with rotten tomatoes, cabbages, big-ass rocks, chicken feathers, tar, a rail, etc.

Some of the most militant atheists I have encountered seem to be those who were formerly devout believers and who now resent having been "taken in."

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@layman,

Who are you talking to?

I was taken in, if that fits and it doesn't really, I was fine with what I was told for a long time, a great long time ago.

I'd prefer not to be diminished re my circumstances, nor that anyone else be, one way or another. Individuals differ and I understand different views, mostly.

What's your deal?

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@ossobuco,

I wasn't talking to (or about) you, Jo. I don't get the idea that you're some kind of "militant atheist," Just sharing an observation from my personal experience, that's all.

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@layman,

There are militant atheists, it can't be denied, but there are also militant anti-atheists.

I'm happy to lock them in a room and pummel each other, as long as they keep the noise down and bother the less worried faithless and faithful.

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Another day when there is no God

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