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Alcohol vs. Pot

 
 
steissd
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 03:04 pm
2 JLNobody
0 Replies
 
fortune
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 11:28 pm
steissd: Interesting to see an Israeli perspective on Mr. Bush! I wont devote a lot of time to discussion of him at this point as I already have a history of running off on tangents and forgetting about the actual subject of the thread. But I would like to say that, in my opinion, while George W. Bush did indeed take most decisive action when his country came under threat, I really think that he could have handled things a lot better.

Now about the subject of this thread (see I'm actually getting to it!), speaking from a purely selfish point of view, I would like to see all marijuana obliterated from the face of the Earth so I'd never have to smell the vile stuff ever again (Laughing). But I know this is never going to happen (sigh). So I guess I have to look at this from a more objective point of view.

I can't say I've ever really had an opinion either way on whether pot should be illegal. I know pot-heads are about as interesting to talk to as drunkards when they get into their chosen poison, so I don't really buy the whole "mind expanding" thing. As far as I know it's just another form of escape from reality. Nothing too bad about that (in moderation), I have my own escapes too.

It is true that pot is harmful to the body and the mind. So is alcohol. The point is, if people are willing to endure the harmful effects of a thing in exchange for the pleasure it brings, does the government have a right to intercede?
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 01:19 am
Well, there you have it, fortune.

(I speak as a limited pot smoker, some time ago.
I still drink alcohol. And chocolate milk.)
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 02:34 am
Ossobuco, you do know cholocate milk kills right?
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agrote
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 03:48 am
fortune wrote:
I know pot-heads are about as interesting to talk to as drunkards when they get into their chosen poison, so I don't really buy the whole "mind expanding" thing.


Oh no, I'm sure cannabis isn't mind-expanding in any way. But what abotu something like LSD?
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fortune
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 03:58 am
Mmmmmm, chocolate......
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 09:47 pm
Osso, can you smoke chocolate?
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 09:54 pm
No, but did I tell you about the brownies?

Years ago I was working in the lab late at night and had skipped dinner. Around nine pm I was starving and ate a bunch of the brownies one of the techs had brought in as a special treat. Let's just say I had four...
I had to postpone the work and go right on home. Luckily I didn't live far away.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 10:09 pm
Oh, I remember the brownies. I too am from Los Angeles, as you know.
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Jer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 10:22 pm
steissd wrote:
Agrote wrote:
Don't you want to see people dancing around screaming, "BLUHARLURGEHOO!!!!" or hiding in basements, blabbering about "the voices!"???

Well, this world would resemble to me a lunatic asylum, and this is the last place I would like to be in.


If you need things to be extremely black and white, then drugs may not be a good idea for you steissd. As long as other people aren't hurting you, why do you care? It takes two puffs of a marijuana cigarette to feel a high - and I don't think that an occasional couple of puffs would be any worse for the body than walking around a city with lots of exhaust from cars in the air would be.

My understanding is that THC is absorbed in the body's fat cells and that it takes a couple of days to clear the system. But unless one's smoked outrageous amounts in one sitting, their brain will be functioning pretty normally once the high has passed.

This is just my understanding and if anyone's got links or facts to refute what I've just said, please post.

The other thing to note, Steissd, is that pot doesn't fundamentally change people, unless abused over long periods of time - it's still the same person behind the donuts and glazed eyes...they just think a little more than usual and giggle more often too.
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colorbook
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 10:26 pm
I made Alice B Toklas (haven't heard that name in a long time) brownies a long time ago but they didn't taste very good. I think I used too much pot. Needless to say, my friends emptied the plate quickly.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2004 10:27 pm
Oh, and yes, apparently chocolate milk can kill, at least I have some saved links re milk drinking and breast cancer among post menopausal women.

Ah, what the hell.
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 12:03 am
Mr. Stillwater's post mentioning Tommy Chong made me look up some links:

http://capwiz.com/norml2/mail/oneclick_compose/?alertid=3406006 Here are a couple of excerpts:

Quote:
Tommy Chong is the first person to be prosecuted under John Ashcroft's "Operation Pipe Dreams" and "Operation Headhunter," which shut down national glass distributors nationwide, resulting in the indictment of over 55 people.


Quote:
Ironically, Tommy Chong was sentenced on September 11, 2003, exactly two years after the worst terrorist attacks in American history. With Osama Bin Laden still on the loose and President Bush admitting that the war on terrorism is far from over, it is preposterous that we would waste valuable law enforcement resources locking up a comedian for selling glass pipes. Can anyone here honestly say they feel safer today because Tommy Chong, a comedian and actor, has been sentenced to 9 months in federal prison for selling pipes on the internet? Of course not. These laws do nothing except make criminals out of otherwise law abiding businessmen.


ReX, I looked on Google but didn't find anything saying that hemp growing is legal in the US (although I didn't do an exhaustive search). I do know that some states have petitioned to make it legal as it is such a profitable and useful crop.

Osso, I'm with you. Aw, what the hell? My Alice B. Toklas brownies were pretty good--chocolate and pot--a great combination. Of course, that was in the 60's. Still, I wish I could have that combination again without breaking the law!

In moderation, a little high isn't going to do any long-term damage. The irrational laws can and do a lot of long-term damage.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 12:12 am
Jer wrote:

My understanding is that THC is absorbed in the body's fat cells and that it takes a couple of days to clear the system. But unless one's smoked outrageous amounts in one sitting, their brain will be functioning pretty normally once the high has passed.

This is just my understanding and if anyone's got links or facts to refute what I've just said, please post.


Don't feel like bringing links but will mention a few corrections. None change the thrust of your point so they are mere quibbles.

THC is, indeed absorbed into fat cells. It does not clear the system in a few days and can remain for an extended period. It does, however, clear the system insofar as detection is concerned quite quickly.

Most detection tests won't be able to detect anything beyond a month.

A follicle test can detect far past that depending on the individual's hair.

Smoking an outrageous amount will in one sitting is not an established danger.

Most misgivings about pot are about long-term heavy use as the implications of this have not yet been studied very well.

But that too is simply a question mark and not an established danger.

Of course, the prolonged heavy use might make a big difference without it being pysiological, just a matter of the user being high for a significant portion of their life and this affecting their mentality.

For example, pot has an effect on short term memory, and if one is always high this can translate into an effect on long term memory merely on the basis of so many short term hinderances.
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fortune
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 04:21 am
Intersting point Craven. We have had a lot of discussion about the physical consequences of smoking pot, but what about the psychological ones?
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 01:36 pm
I remember the days (from television) seeing people smoking pot, being happy, 'flower power' people.

It seems that those days are over. Pity.
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agrote
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 04:56 pm
Yeah it really is. I wish I was born forty years earlier - that would be 1946. I wish I was 17, going on 18, in 1964. I like the Doors Laughing

But no. The drug of the 00's is bloody alcohol, everyone's drunk. Mad
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 04:57 pm
fortune wrote:
Intersting point Craven. We have had a lot of discussion about the physical consequences of smoking pot, but what about the psychological ones?


Anyone who would go to a shrink ought to have his head examined. <shrug>
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agrote
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 04:59 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
Anyone who would go to a shrink ought to have his head examined. <shrug>


Psychology isn't just Freud you know.
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2004 09:07 pm
Rick and argote, the 60's were great, but there was lots of Lord of the Flies behavior that sometimes ended tragically. Those who couldn't grow up or who didn't have a sense of the future, seemed to fall deeper and deeper into drugs without giving unadulterated life a chance. Still, for those of us who experienced it without falling into the trap of believing that that was all life was about, found a new perspective on society that was very healthy and had experiences that our parents couldn't dream about.

We also grew up and had children but many, if not most of us, became aware of the ideals that were worth fighting for and those that just couldn't work.

The lucky among us came out of it with ideals intact as well as a healthy skepticism of what can actually and realistically be done in a capitalist society--meaning we learned to lower our sights and to try only to affect change in our small part of the world. We sure haven't been very successful in getting rid of insane laws.
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