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Alcohol vs. Pot

 
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2004 05:11 pm
You were lucky that there were any cookies left. Describe them, PLEASE.
Sounds like munchy heaven.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2004 10:30 pm
Munchy heaven...

back in a moment, oooooh, I had such a fine visit with m'friends. Actually, I am trying to nudge them to post here.

We''ll see.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2004 10:38 pm
White chocolate, macadamia nut?
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 10:16 am
We run the risk of devolving from a bunch of epicurians to a bunch of hedonists. Carry on, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 10:20 am
Yum yummmmmmmmmm....
0 Replies
 
tcis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 12:37 pm
ossobuco wrote:
Cookies, today I had the world's best cookies. Oh, you didn't want to know?

Oh, well.

(Emporio Rulli, I went to two of them yesterday, not easy to do.)
And, if they're not the world's best cookies, I'd like data to sustain argument against that.

She says, who stayed at a miserable motel a block away in the SF Marina area and just tripped on Rulli's new place near by, which I must say is some kind of manifestation for the Just, ahem.

And then I drove, oh, ten miles north, over the Golden Gate bridge and then some, and got lost with my rental car on Mt. Tamalpais in a certain canyon, and still somehow landed at my friends' house where they had, among other treasures awaiting me, some Emporio Rulli cookies. I am not kidding here, they are serious cookies, she says, frowning. That was all after I drove downhill in a giveitup phase and went to the main Larkspur street and went into Rulli and asked for a phone and then change and they sent me to the phone in front of the library, which did work, thus setting up my actual arrival at friends' great house. Great, as you will remember, for having cookies waiting for me from Rulli, among other features. So there, that is Rulli times three, in one day.

(I guess I should mention I left home three days before without my cell phone, in one of those probably significant psycholoical acts, cellphonedropsy.)


uh, between the two, I am guessing the above is not alcohol inspired...?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 07:22 pm
Eh? With cookies?

Tcis, no, this is the way I talk when I am enthused, it's called "stream of consciousness".
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 07:24 pm
When I do it, I call it blissful babble.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 07:37 pm
OK, I couldn't find a list of their cookies - - they have many different kinds. But I did find a nice picture of their tortas (cakes), ooooooh - http://www.rulli.com/cakes/cakes01.shtml

If you look around the website, I was at the Chestnut Street bakery and the Larkspur one within a couple of hours of each other, due to my getting lost up the hill and needing a phone, and then my friends when I finally arrived had also bought cookies at the Larkspur store that day.

As to alcohol, well, yes, they did serve a nice Chateau St. Jean white, a fume blanc I think, with the cheeses and bread, and then with the seafood, sweet peppers, and rice casserole... before the cookies.

Sigh.

They sent me off again in the morning with, yes, cookies, and also some pears and apples and tomatoes from their garden. OK, end of tangent.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 07:44 pm
What delightful friends.
0 Replies
 
ReX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 04:10 pm
Anyway, why do you think (i.e. historically) that weed was outlawed and still is seen as a 'drug'? Not even generally allowed for medicine (unlike morphine). I've read alcohol remained legal because intoxicants from grapes(wine) where preferred by the catholics. And nicotine...Well, I can developing a product that makes the user addicts without disfunctioning in society can make some powerful political friends... :/
0 Replies
 
Algis Kemezys
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 05:03 pm
Little children better tell what you see and if i could i;d give you candy and a quarter , hey little children... from the song

Stop your giggling my little children and spice
0 Replies
 
ReX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 02:14 pm
I don't know the song, so I assume you're simply on drugs. :p
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 08:06 pm
I know the song. Can't say whether Algie likes drugs or not.
He's pretty smart though.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2004 06:41 am
But alcohol was made illegal in the U.S.

The bit of (probably dis)information that floated around my stoner buddies was that a driving force behind the criminalization of cannibis was William Randolph Hearst, supposedly because he had a large interest in wood-pulp paper products and didn't want the competition from hemp. But nobody would go for criminalizing hemp, so you criminalize all cannabis plants, whether they're for getting stoned or making stuff. Though I don't doubt the prickishness of Mr. Hearst, I'm not sure how much, if any, faith to put in the little story.






Those are horns behind Algis's glasses. I always thought they were flowers on them, for some reason.
0 Replies
 
ReX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2004 06:59 am
Patiodog, if you don't know how much faith to put in the story, don't put any faith in it and look it up. You'll probably find texts like these:
Quote:
1. Why were the laws against drugs passed in the first place?

The first American anti-drug law was an 1875 San Francisco ordinance which outlawed the smoking of opium in opium dens. It was passed because of the fear that Chinese men were luring white women to their "ruin" in opium dens. "Ruin" was defined as associating with Chinese men. It was followed by other similar laws, including Federal laws in which trafficking in opium was forbidden to anyone of Chinese origin, and restrictions on the importation of smoking opium. The laws did not have anything really to do with the importation of opium as a drug, because the importation and use of opium in other forms -- such as in the common medication laudunum -- were not affected. The laws were directed at smoking opium because it was perceived that the smoking of opium was a peculiarly Chinese custom. In short, it was a way of legally targeting the Chinese.

Cocaine was outlawed because of fears that superhuman "Negro Cocaine Fiends" or "Cocainized Niggers" (actual terms used by newspapers in the early 1900's) take large amounts of cocaine which would make them go on a violent sexual rampage and rape white women. There is little evidence that any black men actually did this, if only because it would have been certain death. The United States set a record in 1905 with 105 recorded lynchings of black men. At the same time, police nationwide switched from .32 caliber pistols to .38 caliber pistols because it was believed that the superhuman "Negro Cocaine Fiend" could not be killed with the smaller gun.

Dr. Hamilton Wright is sometimes referred to as the "Father of American Drug Laws". Dr. Wright was the Opium Commissioner at the time and had previously become famous because he had "scientifically proved" that beri-beri was a communicable disease. Beri-beri is a vitamin deficiency.

The Harrison Act which "outlawed" these drugs was, on its face, a simple licensing law which simply required sellers to get a license if they were going to handle the opiates and cocaine. As the Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs has said, it is doubtful that very many members of Congress would have thought that they were passing what would later be regarded as a general drug prohibition. The law even contained a provision that nothing in the law would prohibit doctors from prescribing these drugs in the legitimate practice of medicine.

In fact, even the people who wrote the Harrison Act and the Marijuana Tax Act in 1937 agreed that a general prohibition on what people could put into their own bodies was plainly an unconstitutional infringement on personal liberties. For comparison, see the history of the constitutional amendment which was required to prohibit alcohol. There is no fundamental reason why a constitutional amendment should be required to prohibit one chemical and not another.

The trick was that the bureaucrats who were authorized to issue licenses never did so, and there was a heavy penalty for not having the license. This heavy penalty required that the enforcing bureaucrats needed more staff and, therefore, more power, which, in turn required tougher laws. Over the years, through a series of court rulings, they gradually got the courts to change what had been well-established constitutional law. Specifically, they got the courts to accept the notion that it really was a tax violation when people got arrested for drugs, and that the fact that the government would not issue any licenses was not a defense. They also got the courts to bypass the old issue of whether the Federal Government had the right to control what an individual puts into their own bodies by creating the fiction that whatever the person puts into their bodies must have come as a result of some form of interstate commerce, which is regulated by the Federal Government in the form of taxes and licenses and, therefore, since the Federal Government is allowed to levy a tax it is -- by rather indirect logic -- allowed to regulate what anyone may put into their own bodies.

Marijuana was outlawed in 1937 as a repressive measure against Mexican workers who crossed the border seeking jobs during the Depression. The specific reason given for the outlawing of the hemp plant was its supposed violent "effect on the degenerate races." (Testimony of Bureau of Narcotics Commissioner Harry J. Anslinger, in testimony before Congress in hearings on the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937). The American Medical Association specifically testified that they were opposed to the law. When the supporters of the law were asked about the AMA's view on the law on the floor of Congress, they lied and said that the AMA was in favor of the law because they knew the law would never pass without the AMA's endorsement. The law passed, and the AMA later protested, but the law was never repealed.

In both cases, newspapers across the country carried lurid stories of the awful things that these drugs did to racial minorities, and of the horrors that people of racial minorities inflicted on innocent white people while they were under the influence of these drugs. Later research has shown that not a single one of the stories used to promote these laws could be substantiated.

There never was any scholarly evidence that the laws were necessary, or even beneficial, to public health and safety and none was presented when the laws were passed.




As for prohibition, I like to summarize everything with this:
http://www.taima.org/en/quotes.htm
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2004 07:09 am
Actually, that doesn't preclude behind-the-scenes influence by Hearst. Fear campaigns are a great way to garner public support -- the Mexicans and Negroes will rape your wives! -- and the fact that newspapers were instrumental in stoking those fears doesn't serve to cast suspicion away from Hearst ("You give me the pictures; I'll give you the war").
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2004 07:22 am
Huh...

http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html
Quote:
However, the first state law outlawing marijuana did so not because of Mexicans using the drug. Oddly enough, it was because of Mormons using it. Mormons who traveled to Mexico in 1910 came back to Salt Lake City with marijuana. The church was not pleased and ruled against use of the drug. Since the state of Utah automatically enshrined church doctrine into law, the first state marijuana prohibition was established in 1915. (Today, Senator Orrin Hatch serves as the prohibition arm of this heavily church-influenced state.)

Other states quickly followed suit with marijuana prohibition laws, including Wyoming (1915), Texas (1919), Iowa (1923), Nevada (1923), Oregon (1923), Washington (1923), Arkansas (1923), and Nebraska (1927). These laws tended to be specifically targeted against the Mexican-American population.

When Montana outlawed marijuana in 1927, the Butte Montana Standard reported a legislator's comment: "When some beet field peon takes a few traces of this stuff... he thinks he has just been elected president of Mexico, so he starts out to execute all his political enemies." In Texas, a senator said on the floor of the Senate: "All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff [marijuana] is what makes them crazy."



All right, potential grains of truth here...
Quote:
Harry Anslinger got some additional help from William Randolf Hearst, owner of a huge chain of newspapers. Hearst had lots of reasons to help. First, he hated Mexicans. Second, he had invested heavily in the timber industry to support his newspaper chain and didn't want to see the development of hemp paper in competition. Third, he had lost 800,000 acres of timberland to Pancho Villa, so he hated Mexicans. Fourth, telling lurid lies about Mexicans (and the devil marijuana weed causing violence) sold newspapers, making him rich.




On Anslinger:
Quote:
Harry J. Anslinger

Anslinger was an extremely ambitious man, and he recognized the Bureau of Narcotics as an amazing career opportunity -- a new government agency with the opportunity to define both the problem and the solution. He immediately realized that opiates and cocaine wouldn't be enough to help build his agency, so he latched on to marijuana and started to work on making it illegal at the federal level.

Anslinger immediately drew upon the themes of racism and violence to draw national attention to the problem he wanted to create. Some of his quotes regarding marijuana...


"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others."

"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."

"Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death."

"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."

"Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing"

"You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother."

"Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind."
And he loved to pull out his own version of the "assassin" definition:


"In the year 1090, there was founded in Persia the religious and military order of the Assassins, whose history is one of cruelty, barbarity, and murder, and for good reason: the members were confirmed users of hashish, or marihuana, and it is from the Arabs' 'hashashin' that we have the English word 'assassin.'"
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2004 09:39 am
Wow, interesting stuff, Patiodog and ReX. No wonder I always crave black-bean burritos when I smoke pot. Smile
0 Replies
 
ReX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 05:05 am
I've always liked:
"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."

"Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing"

Anybody remember Bill Hicks? Granted, he expanded to LSD being a good thing (although I haven't done any research on it because it DOES seem a bit dangerous. No research, no information, no using it. That's my policy), but he made some good points.
0 Replies
 
 

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