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Edith Efron's Psycho-analysis of Clinton

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 09:05 am
Well, all I know is that if the Clinton years of having a leader who does too much too fast is an example of how good the country to be then I think we should have more of them.

As for the Lewinsky thing, I concede that it was politically stupid. What I found interesting was his explanation that he was just plain mad at Ken Starr and the Paula Jones case and he kind if did it for spite. It puts a whole new look on the matter and changes him from a person who has a sexual problem that interferes with his job to a guy who just wanted to get some of his own back and ended up getting tripped up again. I can see why he would have wanted to thumb his nose at all those holier than thou's running around trying to catch him in the act but it was stupid.

Despite it all, I still love the guy. I would have loved him no matter his vocation. His sins are not ours to forgive, he sinned against God and Hillary and the first I don't know, the second, she said she forgave him.

The republicans did go on an expensive, wasteful clinton obsession of hate as "blinded by the right" more than explains from a guy who was right there doing it with them.

And yes, I count myself as one who will never change her mind about Clinton unless something just horrible and unforgivable that is proved beyond a shadow of doubt shows up. Whats more, I don't care how it makes me seem. (don't mean that in a confrontational way)
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 09:11 am
I was ambivalent towards Clinton as I am with nearly all politicians but when he stood up to the onslaught of overbearing, nonsensical attacks from the right, I gained a lot of respect for him. I understand Efron's article and it isn't particularly well written, and it doesn't reveal anything earthshattering. It's a rambling, sly rhetoric meant for those who can't think for themselves.

As for Ayn Rand, I lost her when she tried inventing some sort of multi-diest religion for herself.
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JustanObserver
 
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Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 09:19 am
I would love to see a psycho analysis of conservatives who CAN'T STOP talking about Clinton. It's nearly gotten to the point where I ask them the time and they respond "Time? Who has time when Clinton is still running around as a free man?!"

Anyway, yeah, it was bad that he got a BJ from an intern "with dignitaries in the other room". Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't think its as bad as some people would like to make it seem. Plenty of presidents cheated on their wives. Plenty of presidents got their freak on in the white house. When busting a nut in office becomes illegal, then get back to me on it. Otherwise, let it die.

Clinton was a fine president. Get over it.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 09:24 am
Psychoanalysis (one word, no hyphen) definition:

Main Entry: psy·cho·anal·y·sis
Pronunciation: "sI-kO-&-'na-l&-s&s
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin
: a method of analyzing psychic phenomena and treating emotional disorders that involves treatment sessions during which the patient is encouraged to talk freely about personal experiences and especially about early childhood and dreams.

Is Edith Efron's couch open to all?
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 09:26 am
BTW, Lewinsky was 21.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 09:32 am
http://www.snowglobemonster.com/peanuts/images6/doctor1.jpg
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 09:50 am
Laughing Love it! The world is loaded with control freak armchair psychologists, psychiatrists, generals, politicians et al. It's constantly amusing to read their silly rhetorics and get a good laugh.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 10:11 am
I do find the demonization of Clinton to be the really interesting phenomenon in all of this. The mechanics of how it was done are easy enough to suss out with some study, but the motivation or strategy of it is another question.

There's a clue, I think, in the reverse sanctification of Reagan. And now, the attempt to do so with Bush.

On another thread, I pasted this bit below, but it ought to be referenced here as well. I'll highlight the relevant point, then past in a bit more to demonstrate some pretty interesting correlations between Straussian ideas and what we see going on in American political ideas and rhetoric.
Quote:
Straussians love Lincoln and they love him for a couple of reasons, one of which is that he was not reluctant to set the law aside when he felt it was necessary. But they also venerate Lincoln because he quite consciously set about the business of constructing a mythology about American identity, a patriotic mythology. Lincoln made the claim, in his Lyceum speech in 1838, that those who had had the experience of fighting for the establishment of the country in the Revolution were dying out as a generation and that future generations would have to revive this experience through myths and stories that they told about this founding generation. And that is what Straussians do in terms of American culture, primarily through the myth of the Founding Fathers, the notion of this aristocratic elite that established America and the way that it is established. So Lincoln is a very important figure for them because he resorted to tyrannical measures when he had to and because he sought to mythically restore heroic virtues.


Quote:
One modern philosopher who is important in a complicated sort of way for Strauss is Martin Heidegger. Strauss says he encountered Heidegger for the first time in the early 1920s when Strauss "attended his lecture course from time to time without understanding a word, but sensed that [Heidegger] dealt with something of the utmost importance to man as man." But despite his disclaimer of limited understanding, Strauss says that where he broke with Heidegger was with what Strauss called Heidegger's moral teaching, which he describes in this way: There is a straight line that leads from Heidegger's resoluteness to his siding with the so-called Nazis in 1933. After that I ceased to take any interest in him for about two decades."[xiii]


Quote:
So regime is one clear example of Straussian influence on the administration's rhetoric and the thinking behind it. And indeed, William Kristol and a coauthor, in an article entitled "What Was Strauss up To?" point to the notion of regime as an instance of Strauss's influence.[xi]

Another important element is the "good versus evil" trope. Here William Kristol and Robert Kagan can show us the way toward an understanding. They coauthored an article in Foreign Affairs in 1996, entitled "Towards a Neo-Reaganite Foreign Policy." They argued for the importance for conservatives to put moral judgments back at the center of American foreign policy, as Reagan had with the notion of the "evil empire." Carnes Lord, to whom I referred above and who now teaches at the U.S. Naval College and who was a member of the Reagan administration and the Quayle staff as well as a translator of Aristotle, wrote an article in 1999, in which he argued that the crisis of liberalism as he understood it was a crisis of the political class, of the leadership in this country. He blamed the agenda of what he called "multiculturalism" in both domestic and foreign affairs for the fact, as he saw it, that we had lost our way in this country.

http://www.logosjournal.com/xenos.htm
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 12:06 pm
Have retitled the article Edith Efron's Psychobabble.
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swolf
 
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Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 12:56 pm
dlowan wrote:


Perhaps a more sophisticated and less intrusive political culture might help save your country from making an international laughing stock of itself next time some president has rabid enemies, willing to pursue past the point of ridiculousness and human decency and compassion?


Sorry to have to go on disillusioning people, but it wasn't the right wing which made a laughing stock of the nation regarding the Lewinski scandal.

I mean, the first time I ever saw a picture of Monica Lewinsky, I was almost in a state of shock. I mean, picture the European heads of state standing there with their actresses and super models looking at a picture of the leader of what's supposed to be the most powerful nation since Chengis Khan, standing there with a little pig like that. I mean, they must have laughed themselves silly.

I mean, Monica Lewinski is the sort of thing I'd anticipate seeing on the centerfold of some livestock journal.

It may in fact actually be that democrats and liberals can't tell the difference. If that's the case, then you might could devise a simple test for weeding out democrats and liberals in a manner similar to that in which they used to tell Japanese from Chinese during WW-II by having them try to pronounce something like 'lallapolooza' with a lot of 'l's in it, i.e. show the job applicant or whatever two pictures, e.g.:


Test:

One of the pictures below is of a super-model, the other of a pig:

Which is which?


A.

http://www.cinema-stars.com/milla/images/8.jpg


B.

http://www.1manband.it/images/funny/monica_lewinski.jpg


If somebody guesses wrong, or if they honestly can't tell the difference, then they are probably a democrat and a liberal, and can be weeded out from whatever you're testing for.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 01:04 pm
Conservative humor: an oxymoron.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 01:10 pm
Every male member here who has a girlfriend or wife who looks like a supermodel, please post image here:
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Foxfyre
 
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Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 01:14 pm
Actually Swolf, I don't think that is really fair to Monica. At the time she and the president were...um...sharing cigars, she really did dress well and had good hair and skin and beautiful eyes and a nice smile. She was a little on the chunky side by super model standards, but I think most people would say by ordinary standards, she was pretty. Whether she demonstrated good judgment and/or good characer is a legitimate debate, but I can see how Clinton could be attracted to her or at least not repulsed by her.
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 01:19 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Actually Swolf, I don't think that is really fair to Monica. At the time she and the president were...um...sharing cigars, she really did dress well and had good hair and skin and beautiful eyes and a nice smile. She was a little on the chunky side by super model standards, but I think most people would say by ordinary standards, she was pretty. Whether she demonstrated good judgment and/or good characer is a legitimate debate, but I can see how Clinton could be attracted to her or at least not repulsed by her.



I've always been partial to this image myself:

http://members.aol.com/labrecords/cacover.jpg

That's an artist's impression of Monica doing an imitation of Edie Adam's imitation of Mae West for the old Muriel cigar commercials for those too young to remember that...
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 01:35 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Every male member here who has a girlfriend or wife who looks like a supermodel, please post image here:


Like I say, the question is not whether or not YOU would be seen with something like Monica; the question is whether or not any European head of state would...
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 01:36 pm
ROFL. Okay that was good. I do think it's a little mean to pick on Monica for her appearance. I have enough fun picking on her for her conduct. Smile
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 01:50 pm
Acquiunk wrote:
First, to my knowledge Effron has no credentials in psychology, or medicine in general. She uses the terminology of psychology to slander a public official.

Secondly, The Clinton presidency was very successful, the country was at peace, prosperous and was internationally preeminent. His successor can make none of those claims.

Third, Clinton is no longer president,...live with it.



He's desperately trying to shift attention away from the current brain damaged freak occupying the white house.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 02:01 pm
And his supermodel wife.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 02:03 pm
Anyone who has an image of any European head of state who has a girl friend or a wife who looks like a supermodel, please post here:
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 02:06 pm
Mrs. Tony Blair gives new meaning to child bearing hips and the ditzyest looking hair do since Monica:

http://www.paradisepark.org.uk/news/newsimages/blairs.jpg


Is she trying to emulate a Beatle?
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