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Edith Efron's Psycho-analysis of Clinton

 
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:31 am
Quote:
On a scale of one to ten for writing talents, I'd rate Efron about a 9.7 and you about a three.


I cast my vote for farmerman.

(The man has talent)
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:37 am
I was going to wow swolf with a one paragraph summary of Efrons entire rambling oped. Now you can kiss my black ass swolf.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:42 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
I would rather have Bill Clinton running the country from a whorehouse, shouting orders as he satisfied his sexual appetite, than have GW utter a single directive.

But that's just me.



You may get your chance to vote for that in November.

I'd not want to have to bet this one but, if I had to, I'd bet that H. Clinton and not Kerry will be running in November.

Here's the rationale. The Clintons still have major kinds of legal problems hanging over them. Aside from the inviolate tradition which says that an incoming president does not create legal problems for his predacessor (which keeps us from having civil wars every four or eight years), Democrats apparently demanded and got some sort of a blanket amnesty for all members of the Clinton admin as their price for ceding power in 2000. Now, that deal is good so long as George W. Bush remains in office, but what happens then?

Even worse than having some other republican take over, there is the question of what happens if a Howard Dean or some other democrat, who has every bit as much reason to hate the Clintons as any republican, were to take over. Howard Dean could throw the Clintons to the wolves while shouting "See how evenhanded I am!"

Ideally, Hillary would rather wait until 08 to run but, from her perspective, that would amount to putting too much power into the hands of fate. Therefore, Clinton blackops have basically torpedoed all of the halfway viable candidates, leaving only the pathetic gigolo Kerry standing there as a sort of a place holder, to be allowed to run if the Clintons figure Hillary would have no chance at all, and to be brushed aside at the convention if they figure she does have any sort of a chance.

As of now this is just a theory. The day after the dem convention, it might not be.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:43 am
Hey, farmerman, any trouble starts here.....

I got your back, brother.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:44 am
on that note, Farmerman gets the Pulitzer.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:45 am
Quote:
As of now this is just a theory. The day after the dem convention, it might not be
.

Thanks for sharing.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:46 am
Nice observation, Dys.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:51 am
call me curious but I would like to see the results on an MMPI given to Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Ashcroft
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:53 am
LOL Farmerman - I would love to read it!
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 07:55 am
Lol Dys! Just remember - the MMPI is basing normality on a bunch of Minnesotans - in the thirties, I believe.

There has been the addition of a "post-hoc fiddle factor" which is sposed to adjust it for the rest of the human race - but i have my doubts.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 08:00 am
My, the conservatives still have an irrational fear of Clinton. Wonder where that comes from?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 08:01 am
swolf wrote:
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
I would rather have Bill Clinton running the country from a whorehouse, shouting orders as he satisfied his sexual appetite, than have GW utter a single directive.

But that's just me.



You may get your chance to vote for that in November.

I'd not want to have to bet this one but, if I had to, I'd bet that H. Clinton and not Kerry will be running in November.

Here's the rationale. The Clintons still have major kinds of legal problems hanging over them. Aside from the inviolate tradition which says that an incoming president does not create legal problems for his predacessor (which keeps us from having civil wars every four or eight years), Democrats apparently demanded and got some sort of a blanket amnesty for all members of the Clinton admin as their price for ceding power in 2000. Now, that deal is good so long as George W. Bush remains in office, but what happens then?

Even worse than having some other republican take over, there is the question of what happens if a Howard Dean or some other democrat, who has every bit as much reason to hate the Clintons as any republican, were to take over. Howard Dean could throw the Clintons to the wolves while shouting "See how evenhanded I am!"

Ideally, Hillary would rather wait until 08 to run but, from her perspective, that would amount to putting too much power into the hands of fate. Therefore, Clinton blackops have basically torpedoed all of the halfway viable candidates, leaving only the pathetic gigolo Kerry standing there as a sort of a place holder, to be allowed to run if the Clintons figure Hillary would have no chance at all, and to be brushed aside at the convention if they figure she does have any sort of a chance.

As of now this is just a theory. The day after the dem convention, it might not be.



Lol - and I have Kennedy's real killer, Hoover's boyfriend - Clyde Tolson - - embalmed in me garage.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2004 09:27 pm
dlowan wrote:
Well, cos if I did, I would be hoist by me own petard, no?


I think ameteur psychoanalysis is pure **** - and I have major caveats re professional, too.


Own petards hurt.


deb

I didn't mean to turn an 'analytic' eye to them, if that was what you thought I was saying.

Rather, I just meant that certain rhetorical styles and techniques, and the original piece quoted is a fine example, often tell us more about the writer than anything that writer has taken as a subject.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 07:28 am
blatham wrote:

I didn't mean to turn an 'analytic' eye to them, if that was what you thought I was saying.

Rather, I just meant that certain rhetorical styles and techniques, and the original piece quoted is a fine example, often tell us more about the writer than anything that writer has taken as a subject.



Efron's piece doesn't exist in a vacume. When the Lewinski story broke the obvious question was "criminal stupidity, or insanity?"

After the finger-wagging denial, the forensics evidence, and then the 'definition of is' statement, the answer had become fairly obvious.

Nonetheless Efron's piece is a bit more than many could aspire to read and comprehend. I'll be posting some items which you should have an easier time with shortly.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 07:32 am
Quote:
Nonetheless Efron's piece is a bit more than many could aspire to read and comprehend.


swolf - Am I strange or something? I understand Efron's piece completely! Smile
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 07:34 am
swolfie

You probably don't want to be playing the dumber-smarter game with folks here unless your self-image is more resilient that I'm guessing.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 07:37 am
Lol!!!!!!! keep trying to insult, dearie - it is funny.

By the way - sexual dalliance is not rocket science to understand, is it?

Pollies from both sides (and other dignitaries) are caught at it all the time - as are we ordinary folk.

Your commentator did not need to waste their time on foolish parlour psychoanalysis.

A society with hypocritical public mores breeds obfuscation and stupid lies.

Perhaps a more sophisticated and less intrusive political culture might help save your country from making an international laughing stock of itself next time some president has rabid enemies, willing to pursue past the point of ridiculousness and human decency and compassion?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 07:43 am
Quote:
In his memoir, Mr. Clinton concedes he was voted out as governor after just one term because he tried to do too much too fast -- a mistake he thinks he repeated in his first 100 days in the White House


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/01/60minutes/main620619.shtml

Quote:
A small part of Clinton's incoherent description pertains to his doing "too much, too fast." The rest, if one strips away the murky verbiage, is an earnest description of Clinton's difficulty in thinking. His mind races, ideas rush in on him with great speed; he fails to distinguish between having an idea and taking an action, between thinking and doing; he gets lost in details, so he cannot retain his abstract purposes; and he has great difficulty in reaching conclusions or making decisions.


From the Efron piece.

What I found interesting, after reading this thread, was that he repeated the expression, "doing too much, too fast", on the "Sixty Minutes" interview. Apparently Clinton is very much aware of the cognitive difficulties that he has had to live with.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 08:40 am
I do not think those are his cognitive difficulties. The are the difficulties of others who are slow on the up take and unwilling to address problems in a forthright manner. Clinton's problem was/is not thinking too fast but being ahead of the curve,. Which, if you think about it for a moment, is where you want a leader to be.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 08:50 am
It reminds me of that old saying, "I is a leader, but is anybody following?"

I think Efron, may she rest in peace, was maybe the nation's most respected writers with an uncanny ability to make these kinds of analytical assessments of people. She did one on Clarence Thomas once to which he remarked that she was the only person who actually recognized and understood what he was going through.

I do not pretend to know what Bill Clinton is thinking or what are his motives on any given subject. But a person's behavior is not irrelevant in drawing certain conclusions.

I think Efron's piece here is insightful, thoughtful, not at all unkind, complex, and probably accurate.
0 Replies
 
 

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