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What good does religion offer the world today?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 11 Mar, 2017 11:04 am
@TheCobbler,
I believe that too. When I meet people, I usually invite them to stay at our home when they visit this area, and usually give them a tour around our home and Northern CA. One was a guide I had in Egypt, but that was many decades ago.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 12:35 am
@cicerone imposter,
The Song of Deborah is found in Judges 5:2–31

Deborah was a judge whose writings somehow made it into the Bible.

She broke the glass ceiling.

There were other very influential women in the Bible whose pages gave them a fair and honest hearing.

We know from biology, evolution and genetics that male and female existed long before humans.

As my fifth grade English teacher used to say, "It takes two to tango.".

Smile
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 12:46 am
@Leadfoot,
The genealogies in the gospels and OT clearly give the ages and names of patriarchs from Jesus all the way back to Adam.

When you add up all of these dates they go back 4000 years from the year 1 AD.

Add 2000 years until now and you get about 6000 years.

The time of Adam was when God was supposed to have created the universe in seven days.

So yes, any mathematician would be able to trace these biblical dates and arrive at the exact same timeframe.

Interestingly 6000 years ago does correspond to the building of the first major civilizations on earth. Due to fossil records. likely unknown to Hebrew writers, life, the earth and the universe existed earlier.

Since the Bible is errant on science, what makes its claims about theology any more legitimate?

Does the theology somehow seem more reasonable in light of no evidence whatsoever?

When the provable is made to seem doubtful then the unprovable becomes plausible.

This is the fundamentals of religious brainwashing techniques.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 06:59 am
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
The genealogies in the gospels and OT clearly give the ages and names of patriarchs from Jesus all the way back to Adam.

That's fine. But the subject was the age of the Earth, not the 'age of Man'.
If you wish to invoke the bible and say that the Earth was only made 5 or 6 days before the age of Man you are welcome to but I would disagree. As has been pointed out countless times here and other threads, 'a day' in the bible is not necessarily a 24 hour period. The book itself makes that plain with verses like ' A day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day with God'. And if you don't get that even that is a metaphor and not a literal equivalent then there is no point in arguing it.

I'd go on to say that the advent of the genus 'Homo' is not necessarily what the bible is talking about when God created Man. I have no accurate idea when or where the first Man came to be other than in 'the Garden of Eden' and who knows where that is.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 01:39 pm
@Leadfoot,
According to the book of Genesis, God created the heavens and the earth on the first day and humans on the sixth day.

...that omits a few billion years.

Even if a day is as a thousand years, we are short a few billion years on the earth's age alone where the universe (heavens) is much older.

And it is just like God to define a day as, a day and night period, then take it back whenever it suits him/her.

So if the sixth day was a thousand years long why did it take God so long? Does that idea not detract from God's power?

You can't have it both ways and to try and force this to fit only erodes logic and reason.

It is false to claim a certain time then later say it was really a greater time.

When someone says they will pay a debt owed to you in seven days then in seven days they say oh, a day is really a thousand years...

Would that be ethical?

Genesis
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Comment:
And let's not forget the dinosaurs that God neglects to mention.

Galaxies with billions of stars all with their own earths and life...

If each day is like a thousand years that would make God quite old.

And is night a thousand years too?

I am an agnostic so I do not disbelieve or believe in some sort of God but I doubt a lot of religious rhetoric designed solely to control people by the use of cunningly devised fables and mind control.

God says so, so do it...

This is why the church does not belong in the state...

And just consider the logic here...

God calls the light day,

God calls the darkness night,

Then God calls day, night and day.

So is a day the light period, or is a day, day and night?

And what about up in the polar regions where there is midsummer sun where it stays light and dark for long periods?

Does God not know how to tell time?
Krumple
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 01:46 pm
@TheCobbler,
God was not aware that the poles have seasons of no night. Its because God was created in a region where the people didn't know the earth has a tilt causing the sun to always be in the sky in the north and south at different times of the year.

You can poke holes in every Bible story, take the flood story, its got so many errors that almost none of it could possibly be true.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 01:58 pm
@TheCobbler,
My god is evolution. I trust most things that scientists tell us. I have no faith in any religion even though all my siblings are Christians.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 04:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Evolution is not wrong when looked at from a Causal perspective within the flow of time. But if you look at the all Reality without time as a whole then what you have coined as "Evolution" is just a Ratio of correlated Archetypes.
The "design" guys lose the debate when they look for a Designer. But had they been looking only at timeless Archetypes, Reason, then the Evolution talk would be trickier especially when debating randomness vs pseudo-randomness..
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 04:02 pm
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
Even if a day is as a thousand years, we are short a few billion years on the earth's age alone where the universe (heavens) is much older.


Re-read (or more likely read for the first time) the following two sentences from my previous post.

Quote:
The book itself makes that plain with verses like ' A day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day with God'. And if you don't get that even that is a metaphor and not a literal equivalent then there is no point in arguing it.


0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 05:27 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I interpret evolution in the simplest interpretation; it's nature.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 05:36 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Evolution is not wrong when looked at from a Causal perspective within the flow of time. But if you look at the all Reality without time as a whole then what you have coined as "Evolution" is just a Ratio of correlated Archetypes.
The "design" guys lose the debate when they look for a Designer. But had they been looking only at timeless Archetypes, Reason, then the Evolution talk would be trickier especially when debating randomness vs pseudo-randomness..


I don't see any randomness with evolution. Changes in species variations over long periods of time create diversity of life. The problem is we don't live long enough to watch it happen on a large scale. Offspring with slight variations only push those variations if it can obtain food long enough to create offspring. Life is harsh there are not two species who share the same niche. Once that happens the "better" suited species will overcome the rival causing it to go extinct. Humans are great at this but to our detriment too.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Tue 14 Mar, 2017 07:54 pm
@Krumple,
I was referring to the alledged very specific point on random mutations, not about the process of natural selection upon those that are useful. I was also talking a bit about the dilemma on Causality vs Correlation and about Einstein general Relativity...yeah I am messy.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2017 07:30 am
There's plenty randomness in evolution, starting with mutations.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2017 10:46 pm
@Olivier5,
If we believe that humans evolved from primates, mutations must be the answer.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 17 Mar, 2017 06:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
mutations must be the answer.

i.e., ABG - Anything But God : )
farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 17 Mar, 2017 07:57 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
Evolution is not wrong when looked at from a Causal perspective within the flow of time. But if you look at the all Reality without time as a whole then what you have coined as "Evolution" is just a Ratio of correlated Archetypes.
Whenever I feel that Philosophy is getting relevant you go and post something like this.
EG. HOW COULD MORE DEMOCRATS BE "EVOLVED" VIA INTELLIGENT DESIGN?

A: JUST REMOVE ALL WARNING LABELS OFF STUFF AND LET NATURE TAKE ITS COURSE
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 17 Mar, 2017 08:10 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
humans evolved from primates

Well... man IS still a primate, but yes we evolved from prior species of primates.

And then we made sure that none of them prior humans and hominids survived. Basically we killed our fathers, I guess.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Fri 17 Mar, 2017 08:31 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Basically we killed our fathers, I guess.

Every generation (of every organism) creates its own worst enemies (competitors). The natural result is that populations have a tendency to erase their forebears as the line evolves. Kind of like natural recycling. Smile
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 17 Mar, 2017 09:49 am
@Leadfoot,
Do you go through your life assuming God is behind everything that happens? You get a flat tyre, assume it's God, so you don't stop driving over broken glass.

If everyone thought like that there would be no science, no questions to ask because the answer would always be God.

Scientists didn't set out trying to disprove the Bible, the exact opposite in fact. When the answer wasn't God it became very difficult for them
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 17 Mar, 2017 01:03 pm
@izzythepush,
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat02.html
We evolved from primates; humans are primates.
 

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