What good does religion offer the world today?

After death, you won't exist. Therefore, death is not a consequence because there is no one to experience that consequence.

Quote:

So, are you saying that, even in the event that there was no disobedience, Adam and Eve would die without the fruit of the tree of life?

Where are you going with this? Why wouldn't they eat of that tree if they were not kicked out of the garden? God said to eat of every tree except the tree of knowledge, right?

But for modern people to buy into it after seeing what a mess it is...

...that really bites

Matter is neither created or destroyed, it is simply rearranged, over and over and over...

Hey, I said death as in the permanent, do not pass go, do not collect $200 kind. That's pretty consequential.

And if not, is it permanent after the second death?

Quote:

But for modern people to buy into it after seeing what a mess it is...

...that really bites

Define 'mess'. I assume the 'trees' and eating of their fruit are metaphors but the story still has a consistent logic to it.

(at least MY version, my initial mis-reading of the text notwithstanding :-)

Yikes, this is starting to sound disturbingly like a bible study group

So, no eternal torment?

The story, Leadfoot...is an abomination in every respect.

It is a story about a monster god...putting a sting on two unsuspecting innocents...for no reason whatsoever.

The god is abhorrent.

The story is also.

I understand ancient, superstitious, relatively unsophisticated people accepting this in some way...

...but for anyone in today's world to accept it is an insult to humanity

Quote:

The story, Leadfoot...is an abomination in every respect.

It is a story about a monster god...putting a sting on two unsuspecting innocents...for no reason whatsoever.

The god is abhorrent.

The story is also.

I understand ancient, superstitious, relatively unsophisticated people accepting this in some way...

...but for anyone in today's world to accept it is an insult to humanity

OK, so you don't buy my version of the story, that's fine.

But I don't think you are looking at it objectively, even when taken at face value. God gave these two people their very lives and existence. At the end of the story, they have exactly the same set of circumstances, the same planet, the same requirements to live their lives in as we do. In short, the same life that you have described as your heaven and the best life you can imagine.

What the **** is so abominable about that? What makes God monstrous in this scenario?

Yes, affirmative, roger, da, si...

The part about the god punishing the couple...and all the rest of humanity...for doing something they did not know was wrong.

And for putting the innocents into the situation in the first place. There was no need for it. If the monster god did not want them to have the power to tell the difference between right and wrong...

...don't put that tree there.

Or for allowing the tempter to be there.

And finally for being such a dick as to be that miffed because some instructions were not followed.

I thought I had already explained that

Quote:

The part about the god punishing the couple...and all the rest of humanity...for doing something they did not know was wrong.

And for putting the innocents into the situation in the first place. There was no need for it. If the monster god did not want them to have the power to tell the difference between right and wrong...

...don't put that tree there.

Or for allowing the tempter to be there.

And finally for being such a dick as to be that miffed because some instructions were not followed.

I thought I had already explained that

And I thought I had already explained that of course he wanted them to know the difference between good and evil. And he wanted them to make the choice to know, even at the cost of dying.

But more to the point, would you have chosen to remain ignorant of those things and all that implies? That would have made Adam and Eve no more than pet gerbils. God wanted them to be more than that.

I'll check the text again but I don't remember God being miffed either.

then, we've established that death is of no consequence to the unbeliever since there is no penalty for disbelieving.

Also, the consequence following the first death is the same consequence following the second death, which makes the second death pointless and meaningless . . . other than the drama it will provide the god.

Quote:

then, we've established that death is of no consequence to the unbeliever since there is no penalty for disbelieving.

Absolutely correct. No reward either.

Quote:

Also, the consequence following the first death is the same consequence following the second death, which makes the second death pointless and meaningless . . . other than the drama it will provide the god.

Except for that last bit, that's all true too.

I'm not saying that you qualify for the second death, I don't know what a passing score is for sure. But let's say for the sake of argument that you don't get a passing grade. Can you honestly say you would not want the chance to know with certainty what the reality is before you die the second death? If I flunk out, I want to know.

The story is an abomination. Put as much lipstick on this pig as you want...it will remain a pig.