What good does religion offer the world today?

@InfraBlue,

Perhaps a trap for some. .. .

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@neologist,

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Would that be a hardship?

Whether or not it would be a hardship was not the question. The question was: If you acquiesce to the will of the god, will you not die? Also, is growing old and dying and no longer being conscious of anything the consequence of knowing?

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@Glennn,

Are you asking Neo about the first death, or the second?

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@Leadfoot,

If the two people that the god had created had not eaten of the fruit from the tree of knowledge, would they have lived forever on earth?

Also, there is nothing ambiguous about my question of whether or not growing old and dying and no longer being conscious of anything is the consequence of knowing?

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@Glennn,

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If the two people that the god had created had not eaten of the fruit from the tree of knowledge, would they have lived forever on earth?

Yes, he would have been obligated to keep his implied word that they would not die. But I think he would have been terribly disappointed. I don't know what he would have done after that. Maybe start over on another planet or universe? I think sooner or later Adam & Eve would have gotten bored and eaten that damn apple though. God is apparently pretty patient.

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Also, there is nothing ambiguous about my question of whether or not growing old and dying and no longer being conscious of anything is the consequence of knowing?

OK, I'll take your question at face value. Assuming they were like me, Adam & Eve chose final and complete death over not knowing.

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@Leadfoot,

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Yes, he would have been obligated to keep his implied word that they would not die.

And would the two people have been fruitful and multiplied? And would their offspring, in turn, be fruitful and multiply?

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Adam & Eve chose final and complete death over not knowing.

So, no eternal torment?

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@Glennn,

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Leadfoot Quote:
"Yes, he would have been obligated to keep his implied word that they would not die."

Glennn asked:
And would the two people have been fruitful and multiplied? And would their offspring, in turn, be fruitful and multiply?

Going from memory, he said that prior to the tree of knowledge episode so I guess that would still be the case. If it had happened that way it might be as some think: There is a God, but he is unconcerned with what goes on here. Maybe the kids would have taken a bite?

Quote:

Leadfoot Quote:
"Adam & Eve chose final and complete death over not knowing."

Glennn asked:
So, no eternal torment?

I have never seen any indication or had any revelation that eternal torment was in the cards in any scenario.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Yeah, the stories are pretty ridiculous, aren't they.

Christian apologetics: the original fan fiction. Laughing

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:

If the two people that the god had created had not eaten of the fruit from the tree of knowledge, would they have lived forever on earth?

Yes, he would have been obligated to keep his implied word that they would not die.

Ummm...a point of disagreement here.

At Genesis 3:22, we see:

And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

So, they had not been promised eternal life, right?

All the god seemed to be doing...is to prevent them from attaining it...not taking it away from them.

They never had it...or so it seems.

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@Leadfoot,

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Going from memory, he said that prior to the tree of knowledge episode so I guess that would still be the case.

But if there was no death, there would be a population problem before long, given the "be fruitful and multiply" mandate. However, Frank has cleared up the never dying issue. Apparently, the humans were intended to die. And then they were forced out of the garden so that they couldn't eat of the tree of life. Who was the fruit of the tree of life intended for?

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I have never seen any indication or had any revelation that eternal torment was in the cards in any scenario.

So, there is no consequence for rebellion; death being a consequence of no consequence.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Ummm...a point of disagreement here.

At Genesis 3:22, we see:

And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

So, they had not been promised eternal life, right?

All the god seemed to be doing...is to prevent them from attaining it...not taking it away from them.

They never had it...or so it seems

An interesting point.

I said they had an implied promise of eternal life because God said they would die *IF* they ate of the tree. Maybe the only promise of eternal life they had was the same one we have, not this temporary one on earth. I've lost interest in this one anyway so no big loss. The Garden would have been a nice perk while we're here though. Sounds like Neo is still hoping for it.

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@Glennn,

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But if there was no death, there would be a population problem before long, given the "be fruitful and multiply" mandate. However, Frank has cleared up the never dying issue. Apparently, the humans were intended to die. And then they were forced out of the garden so that they couldn't eat of the tree of life. Who was the fruit of the tree of life intended for?

Well ****, I take what I said to Frank back. I read 'Tree of life" as "Tree of knowledge". I can only assume that if they had not been kicked out of the garden they would have eaten of the tree of life since they were not told not to eat of that one, so they did have the promise of eternal life.

I've had one too many gin & tonics for proper hermeneutics on written text this evening...

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@Glennn,

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So, there is no consequence for rebellion; death being a consequence of no consequence

Hey, I said death as in the permanent, do not pass go, do not collect $200 kind. That's pretty consequential.

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@Leadfoot,

So, are you saying that, even in the event that there was no disobedience, Adam and Eve would die without the fruit of the tree of life?

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@Leadfoot,

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Hey, I said death as in the permanent, do not pass go, do not collect $200 kind. That's pretty consequential.

Who is going to experience the consequence?

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@Glennn,

Oh, the overpopulation thing would not be a problem unless you imposed that on yourself. I'm sure God anticipated the Pill, etc.

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@Leadfoot,

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I'm sure God anticipated the Pill, etc.

But the pope, whom speaks to the god, is against contraception.

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@Glennn,

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So, are you saying that, even in the event that there was no disobedience, Adam and Eve would die without the fruit of the tree of life?

Where are you going with this? Why wouldn't they eat of that tree if they were not kicked out of the garden? God said to eat of every tree except the tree of knowledge, right?

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@Glennn,

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Who is going to experience the consequence?

Now you're just jerk'n me around. All not found in the book of life according to the story.

And BTW, **** the pope.

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@Leadfoot,

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Now you're just jerk'n me around. All not found in the book of life according to the story.

No, I'm not jerking you around. My point is that death is not a consequence to anyone who doesn't exist. After death, you won't exist. Therefore, death is not a consequence because there is no one to experience that consequence.

1 Reply

What good does religion offer the world today?

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