55
   

What good does religion offer the world today?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 04:26 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
...leave the religion, because it is a fraud.


Not as fraudulent as someone who dismisses/ignores/ridicules other interpretations that blow a huge hole in his argument.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 04:41 am
@neologist,
Neo wrote:
Would not a perfect conscience impel one to act morally without ruminating over details? Jesus referred to this conscience at Matthew 7:9,10


Humans are born blind without even depth perception let alone a "perfect conscience"...

Conscience is learned through Gnosis, not magic fairy dust... Smile
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 08:56 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

The way for them to get that knowledge...was to allow them to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

He expressly forbid that...because it would make Adam and Eve like gods...who have the knowledge of good and evil.

Why the god did not want Adam and Eve to be like gods...we don't know.

I think it is clear that he DID want them to be like God (himself).
Quote:

But to suppose the god wanted them to know...but forbid them from getting the knowledge makes no sense.

The reason that gives it meaning was the same then as now. He wanted them to want that knowledge (even if momentarily) more than they wanted life itself.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 01:57 pm
I never cease to be amazed at the inability of some to understand the issues of Genesis chs, 1-3.

At the end of the 6th day, God declared his work "good". - Genesis 1:31. Yet, some are so obtuse as to declare God must have been wrong, that his work was deficient, or that he had in mind an era of unmatched sadism.

Some declare that God's work was not good enough. Adam and eve were too naieve to understand the gravity of God's warning. They claim their God given conscience neded augmntation, that instinctively knowing it was wrong to rape, steal, and murder, needed additional information.

Additionally, they deny the operation of free will, claiming God should have known in advance the danger posed by the upcoming rebellion. Thereby, they conveniently remove the responsibility for error from the perpetrators and place it upon the creator.

They gloat over their own stadards of morality and fairness, while indicting the originater of those standards.

So, who has not only the right, but the obligation to set standards for his creation? God, or his creation? Should the pot criticize the potter?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 09:30 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
They claim their God given conscience neded augmntation, that instinctively knowing it was wrong to rape, steal, and murder, needed additional information.

Knowing that it's wrong to rape steal and murder without the knowledge of good and bad, i.e. rape, theft and murder is a contradiction. It's obtuse not to see the contradiction in the flawed myth.

There's a certain pathology in rationalizing it.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 09:36 pm
One religion offers this. I have started two threads with this information and they go "poof". Why is Sharia a secret?

Quote:
1- Jihad, defined as “to war against non-Muslims to establish the religion,” is the duty of every Muslim and Muslim head of state (Caliph). Muslim Caliphs who refuse jihad are in violation of Sharia and unfit to rule.

2- A Caliph can hold office through seizure of power meaning through force.

3- A Caliph is exempt from being charged with serious crimes such as murder, adultery, robbery, theft, drinking and in some cases of rape.

4- A percentage of Zakat (charity money) must go towards jihad.

5- It is obligatory to obey the commands of the Caliph, even if he is unjust.

6- A caliph must be a Muslim, a non-slave and a male.

7- The Muslim public must remove the Caliph if he rejects Islam.

8- A Muslim who leaves Islam must be killed immediately.

9- A Muslim will be forgiven for murder of: 1) an apostate 2) an adulterer 3) a highway robber. Vigilante street justice and honor killing is acceptable.

10- A Muslim will not get the death penalty if he kills a non-Muslim, but will get it for killing a Muslim.

11- Sharia never abolished slavery, sexual slavery and highly regulates it. A master will not be punished for killing his slave.

12- Sharia dictates death by stoning, beheading, amputation of limbs, flogging even for crimes of sin such as adultery.

13- Non-Muslims are not equal to Muslims under the law. They must comply to Islamic law if they are to remain safe. They are forbidden to marry Muslim women, publicly display wine or pork, recite their scriptures or openly celebrate their religious holidays or funerals. They are forbidden from building new churches or building them higher than mosques. They may not enter a mosque without permission. A non-Muslim is no longer protected if he leads a Muslim away from Islam.

14- It is a crime for a non-Muslim to sell weapons to someone who will use them against Muslims. Non-Muslims cannot curse a Muslim, say anything derogatory about Allah, the Prophet, or Islam, or expose the weak points of Muslims. But Muslims can curse non-Muslims.

15- A non-Muslim cannot inherit from a Muslim.

16- Banks must be Sharia compliant and interest is not allowed.

17- No testimony in court is acceptable from people of low-level jobs, such as street sweepers or bathhouse attendants. Women in low level jobs such as professional funeral mourners cannot keep custody of their children in case of divorce.

18- A non-Muslim cannot rule -- even over a non-Muslim minority.

19- Homosexuality is punishable by death.

20- There is no age limit for marriage of girls. The marriage contract can take place anytime after birth and can be consummated at age 8 or 9.

21- Rebelliousness on the part of the wife nullifies the husband’s obligation to support her, gives him permission to beat her and keep her from leaving the home.

22- Divorce is only in the hands of the husband and is as easy as saying: “I divorce you” and becomes effective even if the husband did not intend it.

23- There is no community property between husband and wife and the husband’s property does not automatically go to the wife after his death.

24- A woman inherits half what a man inherits.

25- A man has the right to have up to 4 wives and none of them have a right to divorce him -- even if he is polygamous.

26- The dowry is given in exchange for the woman’s sexual organs.

27- A man is allowed to have sex with slave women and women captured in battle, and if the enslaved woman is married her marriage is annulled.

28- The testimony of a woman in court is half the value of a man.

29- A woman loses custody if she remarries.

30- To prove rape, a woman must have 4 male witnesses.

31- A rapist may only be required to pay the bride-money (dowry) without marrying the rape victim.

32- A Muslim woman must cover every inch of her body, which is considered “Awrah,” a sexual organ. Not all Sharia schools allow the face of a woman exposed.

33- A Muslim man is forgiven if he kills his wife at the time he caught her in the act of adultery. However, the opposite is not true for women, since the man “could be married to the woman he was caught with.”

34-It is obligatory for a Muslim to lie if the purpose is obligatory. That means that for the sake of abiding with Islam’s commandments, such as jihad, a Muslim is obliged to lie and should not have any feelings of guilt or shame associated with this kind of lying.

The above are clear-cut laws in Islam decided by great Imams after years of examination and interpretation of the Quran, Hadith and Mohammed’s life. Now let the learned Imam Rauf tell us: What part of the above is compliant with the U.S. Constitution?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 09:51 pm
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/12118724_817901148308774_6497920851875922691_n.jpg
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2015 11:38 pm
@InfraBlue,
You know its wrong to rape.
Do you really have to think about it?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 12:00 am
@neologist,
Quote:

At the end of the 6th day, God declared his work "good". - Genesis 1:31.
I haven't heard anyone say it wasn't good. I think it's rather obvious that it wasn't finished though. Still isn't for that matter.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 12:58 am
@Leadfoot,
What do you think needs to ne done?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 01:34 am
@neologist,
For man to mature and leave childish things (like denominational dogma) behind.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 07:44 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

You know its wrong to rape.
Do you really have to think about it?

I'm also neither Adam or Eve.
Joe Sixpack
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 01:44 pm
@Leadfoot,
Are you saying we were created to manifest denominational dogma. Or, is that part of the imperfection that has crept in since the rebellion?
Joe Sixpack
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 01:49 pm
@InfraBlue,
neologist wrote:
You know its wrong to rape.
Do you really have to think about it?
InfraBlue wrote:
I'm also neither Adam or Eve.
Good. I had hoped you would not have claimed otherwise.
So, you appear to understand how a conscience operates.
What about in more complex matters?
Suppose you are a logger/lumber producer.
How many trees should you cut in a given area?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 02:49 pm
@Joe Sixpack,
neologist wrote:

So, you appear to understand how a conscience operates.

This in no way addresses the contradiction in your take of the story. Adam and Eve would not "know" that rape is "bad" without the knowledge of what is "good and bad."

I was taught that rape is "bad."

You're forgetting who you are posting as.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 03:10 pm
@Joe Sixpack,
Quote:
Are you saying we were created to manifest denominational dogma. Or, is that part of the imperfection that has crept in since the rebellion?

Definitely not the former but the latter is true since there were no denominations until well after Adam & Eve.

But what I was really saying is that Neo should engage the logical arguments being made rather than reading from the play book of his denomination.

Also, there was no 'rebellion' in the Adam & Eve story in my view.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 03:30 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
. . . Also, there was no 'rebellion' in the Adam & Eve story in my view.
One translation for the word 'satan' is 'rebel'.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 04:11 pm
@neologist,
What I'm saying is that there was no rebellion on the part of Adam & Eve. Satan's rebellion happened long before that.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 04:54 pm
@Leadfoot,
Isn't disobedience rebellion?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 05:04 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Isn't disobedience rebellion?


No...not when the "disobedience" is simply the product of not having enough information upon which to base "disobedience."

The element of your religion, Neo...is a total loser.
0 Replies
 
 

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