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What good does religion offer the world today?

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izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:56 am
@Frank Apisa,
Not according to the Pet Shop Boys.

0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 10:25 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:



The ONLY thing a sin can be...

...is something that offends a god.

If you have a god...

...and you offend that god...

...it is a sin.

Insofar as you do things that do not offend that god...

...you are not sinning.
I would agree, but by logical extension, I'm saying that the only thing that offends God is denying reality. Or as Paul put it, doing anything you don't really believe in.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 10:32 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:



The ONLY thing a sin can be...

...is something that offends a god.

If you have a god...

...and you offend that god...

...it is a sin.

Insofar as you do things that do not offend that god...

...you are not sinning.
I would agree, but by logical extension, I'm saying that the only thing that offends God is denying reality. Or as Paul put it, doing anything you don't really believe in.


If the god you are talking about is the god of the Bible, Leadfoot...it is offended by a hell of a lot more than just "denying reality"...whatever that means.

neologist
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 11:07 am
@Frank Apisa,
Actually, sin is moral error.
Without the knowledge of good and bad, there would be no error.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 12:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If the god you are talking about is the god of the Bible, Leadfoot...it is offended by a hell of a lot more than just "denying reality"...whatever that means.
I'm trying to think of an example of sin from the bible that at its root is not a denial of reality but so far I can't. Please supply one or more if you like.

An example that might not be obvious is something like keeping the sabbath. Although the New Testament says we are no longer bound by 'the law', the basic principles do remain. At its core, that law was made for man's sake so that he takes time out from the necessary tasks needed to survive in this physical environment and spends some time contemplating his spiritual nature and hence his relation to God. If you neglect taking that time, you are denying the reality of your spiritual nature. That is a sin.

I hasten to add that 'keeping the sabbath' has nothing to do with one particular day of the week or where you choose to contemplate your spiritual nature.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:30 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Actually, sin is moral error.
Without the knowledge of good and bad, there would be no error.


Neo...unless a thought or deed offends you god...there is no sin.

Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and bad. Using your reasoning, they could make no error.

But they did offend your god...and they, and all the rest of humanity, was punished for the offense.

No sparer of the rod...that god of yours.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:33 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
If the god you are talking about is the god of the Bible, Leadfoot...it is offended by a hell of a lot more than just "denying reality"...whatever that means.
I'm trying to think of an example of sin from the bible that at its root is not a denial of reality but so far I can't. Please supply one or more if you like.

An example that might not be obvious is something like keeping the sabbath. Although the New Testament says we are no longer bound by 'the law', the basic principles do remain. At its core, that law was made for man's sake so that he takes time out from the necessary tasks needed to survive in this physical environment and spends some time contemplating his spiritual nature and hence his relation to God. If you neglect taking that time, you are denying the reality of your spiritual nature. That is a sin.

I hasten to add that 'keeping the sabbath' has nothing to do with one particular day of the week or where you choose to contemplate your spiritual nature.


I truly do not know what you mean by "denying reality"...but the bottom line is that instead of looking for a sin that is not a denial of reality...

...try looking for a sin that is not a thought or deed that offends your god.

If you can offer one for consideration, we'll discuss it.
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 02:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
But they did offend your god...and they, and all the rest of humanity, was punished for the offense.
OK. Consequences, not punishment.
And don't forget God's promise to remove the consequences and heal the wounds.

He is the one who "causes to become", don't forget .
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:06 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
But they did offend your god...and they, and all the rest of humanity, was punished for the offense.
OK. Consequences, not punishment.


Gimme a break, Neo. And give yourself one also.

The "consequences" were one of the most disgusting punishments ever meted out by any god. And there have been lots of gods almost as disgusting as your god.


Quote:
And don't forget God's promise to remove the consequences and heal the wounds.


Oh, really?

Stay away from the Kool-Aid.

Quote:


He is the one who "causes to become", don't forget .


"He" is almost certainly a mythological character invented by primitive, superstitious ancient Hebrews...who wanted a barbaric, petty, laughably tyrannical god.

That is what they invented.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:12 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Actually, sin is moral error.
Without the knowledge of good and bad, there would be no error.

So, without the knowledge of good and bad, Adam could have murdered Eve and not committed a sin?
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
For a minute there I thought I caiught you trying to steal 3rd

I'll straighten you out later, old friend.

Using a phone is a drag
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:25 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
And don't forget God's promise to remove the consequences and heal the wounds.

What consequences?
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:37 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
So, without the knowledge of good and bad, Adam could have murdered Eve and not committed a sin?
I had not anticipated someone might assert a perfect human could commit murder.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:38 pm
@Glennn,
Visiting suffering, catastrophe, hardship, etc. upon humankind; letting Satan rule the world for about six thousand years until he restores Earth to its original paradisiacal state and letting Jehovah's Witnesses live there forever and ever thereafter.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:39 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
So, without the knowledge of good and bad, Adam could have murdered Eve and not committed a sin?
I had not anticipated someone might assert a perfect human could commit murder.

So, "good" is irrelevant to perfection?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
God provided the warning, Frank.
Who do you suppose has been providing the conseqences?
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:43 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
What consequences?
You knw.
Chapped lips
Paper cuts
Disembowelments
Death
Stuff like that
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:49 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

God provided the warning, Frank.
Who do you suppose has been providing the conseqences?


The god of the Bible provided some words, NEo.

Unfortunately, the story teller (whoever that was) screwed up the story line.

The couple did NOT know good from bad...good from evil. They had no way of knowing that disobeying was wrong. The god's words were not truly a warning...because you cannot "warn" someone on something like this if they do not know right from wrong.

But...you are so married to that story which seems to form the basis of your religion...I doubt you will be able to look at it with open eyes.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:54 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
You knw.
Chapped lips
Paper cuts
Disembowelments
Death
Stuff like that

So, this god is going to save believers from suffering these things during their lives here? I don't think so.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:57 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Who do you suppose has been providing the conseqences?

An agent of God, I'm guessing.
 

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