55
   

What good does religion offer the world today?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 23 Jun, 2015 01:26 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

Mary the mother of Jesus was no older than 14 when your ghost God impregnated her.


Is that something people are supposed to take your word for...or do you have a citation which has eluded scholars for centuries?


0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Tue 23 Jun, 2015 01:44 pm
https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11181322_871341556292233_3533521809094519274_n.png?oh=6182fd48c63a85c98be901974d1496b3&oe=562D5446
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Tue 23 Jun, 2015 01:52 pm
Actually Frank it takes only a simple Google search...

1- The Bible's Prophets, and even Roman Emperors married girls as young as 8! [1]. 2- Mary got pregnant between the ages of 11 and 14. 3- Joseph was as old as 99 when he married Mary when she was in the age range above.

I typed into Google "how old was Mary when she got pregnant?"

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how+old+was+mary+when+she+got+pregnant

I decided to err on the side of the older age but she could have been barely 11 years old.

Look up Jewish tradition and you can easily define how old a "handmaiden" typically is, 14 or younger...

I guess Joseph did not mind God having sex with 11 year old Mary considering it a was also Joseph's intention to do the same... you know, birds of a feather...

I guess Islam and Judaism have the same "issues"...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 23 Jun, 2015 01:56 pm
@TheCobbler,
"Could have been..."

You did not say she could have been as young as 14...you said she was.

So I ask again:

Do you have a citation that has eluded scholars for centuries?

(Best possible answer: No, I do not.)
neologist
 
  0  
Tue 23 Jun, 2015 02:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Yeah, but Frank.
Cobbly has issues!
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Tue 23 Jun, 2015 03:20 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

But it has been my observation that those who worship their brains have given themselve over to a most capricious god. You never know what it may think up.

Capricious brains thought up the capricious god of the Bible, after all. "In our image..." and whatnot.
neologist
 
  0  
Tue 23 Jun, 2015 03:35 pm
@InfraBlue,
There ya go!
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jun, 2015 12:30 am
@Frank Apisa,
This is copied directly from the catholic encyclopedia.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm

"Marriage

It is probably at Nazareth that Joseph betrothed and married her who was to become the Mother of God. When the marriage took place, whether before or after the Incarnation, is no easy matter to settle, and on this point the masters of exegesis have at all times been at variance. Most modern commentators, following the footsteps of St. Thomas, understand that, at the epoch of the Annunciation, the Blessed Virgin was only affianced to Joseph; as St. Thomas notices, this interpretation suits better all the evangelical data.

It will not be without interest to recall here, unreliable though they are, the lengthy stories concerning St. Joseph's marriage contained in the apocryphal writings. When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, "the Lord's brother"). A year after his wife's death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place. These dreams, as St. Jerome styles them, from which many a Christian artist has drawn his inspiration (see, for instance, Raphael's "Espousals of the Virgin"), are void of authority; they nevertheless acquired in the course of ages some popularity; in them some ecclesiastical writers sought the answer to the well-known difficulty arising from the mention in the Gospel of "the Lord's brothers"; from them also popular credulity has, contrary to all probability, as well as to the tradition witnessed by old works of art, retained the belief that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the Mother of God. "

Comment:
So the answer to your question is Mary's age at marriage is given in the Apocrypha which most scholars agree were written around the first century.

If you have a problem with this go argue it with the Pope.

"Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old,"

Sound like your ideal arranged marriage Frank, never mind the virgin impregnation by God also...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jun, 2015 03:20 am
@TheCobbler,
If you want to say that Mary MAY HAVE BEEN as young as 12 when she conceived...fine.

MANY 12 year old girls back then conceived children. It was a different time...and different standards applied.

Your mocking of the age (14) as being too young even for a god...was nonsense.

In any case, if you want to assert that Mary WAS 14...as you did...you are asserting something you do not know.

And the words "unreliable though they are" (mentioned in this citation) have meaning that you apparently are disregarding.

As I suggested, Cobbler...your best answer for my original question, would be: I do not have a citation...I do not know.
Smileyrius
 
  0  
Wed 24 Jun, 2015 04:28 am
@TheCobbler,
When you quote the Apocrypha, it is important to note that the early Hebrew Scholar Jerome, (recognised by the CatholicChurch as a saint) wrote the following. in a letter regarding the education of his daughter.
“Let her avoid all the apocryphal books, and if she ever wishes to read them, not for the truth of their doctrines but out of respect for their wondrous tales, let her realize that they are not really written by those to whom they are ascribed, that there are many faulty elements in them, and that it requires great skill to look for gold in mud.”—Select Letters, CVII.
you wrote:
If you have a problem with this go argue it with the Pope

I might have a chat with him about it if I get the chance. I do find the Catholic faith to be quite fascinating.
neologist
 
  0  
Wed 24 Jun, 2015 08:34 am
@Smileyrius,
Truth does not seem to be relevant here.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:07 am
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:
“Let her avoid all the apocryphal books, and if she ever wishes to read them, not for the truth of their doctrines but out of respect for their wondrous tales, let her realize that they are not really written by those to whom they are ascribed, that there are many faulty elements in them, and that it requires great skill to look for gold in mud.”—Select Letters, CVII.

This advice can be applied to the whole of the Bible as well.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank, 14 year old girls are the same yesterday as they are forever...

You are lowering yourself for whatever reason, seems to lower your opinion too...
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:51 pm
@Smileyrius,
Jerome apparently did not believe in the gnostic ideas.

He was wrong...
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:52 pm
Spirit versus knowledge, which idea wins?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jun, 2015 03:08 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

Frank, 14 year old girls are the same yesterday as they are forever...


Okay. But back at the time you were referring to...most girls were first conceiving at age 14...or even less.

The point you were trying to make was wrong. And the assertion was one for which you could not find substantiation.

That is all I was saying.

Like you, I consider the god of the Bible to be a monster...unworthy of love, adoration, devotion or worship. But that does not change what I originally wrote.


Quote:
You are lowering yourself for whatever reason, seems to lower your opinion too...


If you think that...you think it.

I respect your right to have that opinion of me, although I disagree with it.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jun, 2015 03:10 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

Spirit versus knowledge, which idea wins?


Knowledge seems to trump almost anything...but some people want to assert that their guesses are knowledge.

Tell me, Cobbler: Are there any gods?


Smileyrius
 
  0  
Thu 25 Jun, 2015 06:01 am
@TheCobbler,
We are all wrong about some things cobbler
neologist
 
  0  
Thu 25 Jun, 2015 09:08 am
@TheCobbler,
Where would we be without your persuasive proclamations and enlightening erudition, oh wise one?
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Thu 25 Jun, 2015 11:10 am
@neologist,
Where would you be Neo? Y0u would be believing that hogwash you refer to as religion... Smile

 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 02/06/2025 at 06:47:40