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Upon

 
 
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2004 05:36 pm
I could not understand clearly the meaning of "upon" in the context below. Can we discard the upon and just use "follow"?

Context:

Washington's choice as commander in chief of the military forces of all the colonies followed immediately upon the first fighting, though it was by no means inevitable and was the product of partly artificial forces.
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Joe Nation
 
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Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2004 06:33 pm
The 'upon' is just English's way of being really accurate. You must have some preposition after 'immediately', here 'upon' means 'at the same moment as' . You could try other prepositions there to see how the meaning changes-- 'after' or 'around', for example, but they create uncertainty about the timing of the promotion.

Just as, if you drop it completely, ... 'followed the first fighting...' , there is some uncertainty as to how soon after he was made commander, but when you use 'immediately upon' it's evident that it was nearly at the same moment as the first fighting or immediately thereafter.

What book or article are you reading?

Joe
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2004 06:40 pm
Re: Upon
oristarA wrote:
I could not understand clearly the meaning of "upon" in the context below. Can we discard the upon and just use "follow"?

Context:

Washington's choice as commander in chief of the military forces of all the colonies followed immediately upon the first fighting, though it was by no means inevitable and was the product of partly artificial forces.


Could say: "at the first fighting"
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oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2004 07:01 pm
Hi Joe,

I'm reading Encyclopaedia Britannica.

I still didn't exactly get the meaning of "at the same moment as", because I was confused by the sequence of the times.

For better undertstanding your explanation, I think firstly I should get the sequence clear. Is the sequence like this? --

(1) At 10a.m. of June 18, the first fighting happened.

(2) And at 5p.m. of June 18, Washington's choice (as commander in chief of the military forces of all the colonies) was made.


The word upon made me confused that Washington's choice might be made at 10a.m. while the first fighting happened at 5p.m., as well as Miller's "at". Razz
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2004 08:45 pm
You've got it. First, fighting, then (right straight away) Washington gets the job. The sequence comes from the word 'followed' = came after.

Washington's choice as commander in chief of the military forces of all the colonies followed immediately upon the first fighting, though it was by no means inevitable and was the product of partly artificial forces.

Pare it down:
Washington's choice as commander followed immediately upon the first fighting.

now try 'after'
"Washington's choice as commander followed immediately after the first fighting.", if that makes it clearer.

It should be said that the use of 'immediately upon' is a rather old-fashioned way of putting it, which, of course, makes it right for the encyclopedia.

A modern newspaper might write :

(NYT) Washington's selection as commander came on the heels of the first fighting.
or

(WSJ) Washington's choice as commander came with the first shots fired.

or

The New Yorker:

The echoes of the opening shots had hardly faded before Washington was selected as Commander.....
==
Someday I'd like to hear your thoughts about America, maybe you could start a topic --- The View from Oristar's Window...... Smile

Joe
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oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2004 11:49 am
Excellent reply Joe. Smile
That is a good subject -- The View from Oristar's Window.
And now, I look the US through Joe's window.
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