Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

@oralloy,

Quote:

The Trump Administration will prosecute all who illegally enter the US, will seek jail terms for all who are convicted, and will carry out whatever sentences the judges impose on the guilty.

Entering the U.S. illegally is only a misdemeanor level crime, and entering to seek asylum is no crime at all. So what sorts of draconian. sentences are you envisioning?

Illegal entrants should simply be deported, along with their children, and not jailed for any length of time, and asylum seekers should have hearings and court appearances while not kept in detention.

You're not keeping up with what is actually going on in terms of current immigration procedures and policies. A variation of catch and release is going on, and ankle monitors are being used instead of pre-trial detention for those requesting asylum. These measures avoid separating children and parents. And they have been trying to reunite those already separated.

Blickers has aleady explained it correctly.

Try reading the news links posted about the recent court rulings, which explain what is going on, you might learn something.

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Trump just imposed $200 billion more in tariffs on Chinese goods--but this round is different and may hit American consumers hard.

Even the Republican Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, who supported the first round, described this move as "reckless".

http://fortune.com/2018/07/11/trump-china-trade-war-200b/

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@firefly,

That's what really upsets me the most (here in Germany as well): asylum seeking is no crime but a human right. And usually done by crossing a border "illegally".

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Trump's Tariff Barage Pushes China Fight To Point Of No Return

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-11/trump-s-tariff-barrage-pushes-china-fight-to-point-of-no-return

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Entering the U.S. illegally is only a misdemeanor level crime, and entering to seek asylum is no crime at all. So what sorts of draconian sentences are you envisioning?

Six months in jail for a first offense. Two years in prison for subsequent offenses.

firefly wrote:

Illegal entrants should simply be deported, along with their children, and not jailed for any length of time,

Well, they're not going to be. They're going to serve whatever sentences the judges impose on them after they are convicted.

So, which option do you prefer in dealing with their kids? Soylent Green? Or turning the kids loose to fend for themselves in the Mexican desert?

firefly wrote:

You're not keeping up with what is actually going on in terms of current immigration procedures and policies.

Yes I am.

firefly wrote:

Try reading the news links posted about the recent court rulings, which explain what is going on, you might learn something.

There is no need to learn what I already know.

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@oralloy,

Quote Blickers:

Quote:

It is clearly not necessary to put them in jail. So don't do it anymore. It's immoral, it's grotesque, it's right out of the 18th Century, and it's expensive as hell.

Quote oralloy:

Quote:

The Trump Administration will prosecute all who illegally enter the US, will seek jail terms for all who are convicted, and will carry out whatever sentences the judges impose on the guilty.

But it's a Federal agency under Trump's authority who brings the cases before the judges in the first place. Legally, Trump can snap his fingers and those non-asylum seekers can be sent home with their children within 24 hours or less without ever seeing a judge.

Simply stating that Trump will not do this is not an explanation as to why he won't do it. Trump is completely within the law to change the policy so that the non-asylum seekers need not go to jail or be separated from their children.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Simply stating that Trump will not do this is not an explanation as to why he won't do it.

I believe the reason why Trump is going to seek jail terms for illegal immigrants is because he believes that it will be a deterrent to illegal immigration, and he wants to deter illegal immigration.

Blickers wrote:

Trump is completely within the law to change the policy so that the non-asylum seekers need not go to jail or be separated from their children.

He could do that. But he's not going to.

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@oralloy,

Then the people in Trump's Administration had better get used to bagging their lunch and dinner because there's a lot of Hispanics in the restaurant business who are well within their rights to voice their displeasure with the Adminstration's actions. And quite a few non-Hispanics who agree with them on separating parents from their children.

1 Reply

@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Trump is completely within the law to change the policy so that the non-asylum seekers need not go to jail or be separated from their children.

the problem is that means less $$$ for his elite supporters. he has to continue to do things that mean money for his elite friends. as always with #45, it is about following the brand, the elite and the $$$

just with the separated kids - look at the $$ going to B. Devos and her family. Elite/brand/$$$

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Unfortunately Trump suddenly instituted a zero tolerance policy, without adequate preparation for it befotehand, and he thereby created a self made crisis that has overwhemed the agencies charged with implimenting it, become immobilized by pre-existlng laws, and created a huge backlash against the inhumane consequences of this policy.

Trump has already backtracked on the issue of seperating children from parents, and the enormous, needless expenses of his toss them in jail policy will likely result in a lot more backtracking. For one thing, the federal government lacks the detention facilities to house them and has been scrambling--and paying top dollar--to find alternatives that will help them deal with this self created problem as fast as possible.

Costs are enormous. The tent city detention complexes were very
expensive to acquire and erect, but that was only the beginning, the
bill really zooms when it comes to housing inmates there. It costs about $775 per night per person---that's $24,025 per month per person!.

And you want to lock up 10's of thousands first time offending illegal immigrants for 6 months? At a cost of $144,150 EACH for 6 months!

Other alternatives have shipped these inmates all over the country to various local jails, costing the feds millions and millions. One small example is going on in New Jersey.
Under Trump, Democratic New Jersey Counties Cash in on Detaining
Immigrants
https://www.wnyc.org/story/under-trump-liberal-new-jersey-counties-cash-in-detaining-immigrants/

Illegal immigration had been on the decline before Trump suddenly instituted the zero tolerance policy that resulted in this self created crisis, and mess. And it was done to give himself a political boost with his base, and to force the funds for a wall he alone seems to want. This was not necessary for our national security, and many sectors in this country welcome the low cost labor that undocumented workers provide. And, since most trying to enter the country are seeking asylum from significant violence and oppression, it is inappropriate and misleading to promote this policy as "a deterrent to illegal immigration".

The exorbitant amount of taxpayer money being wasted on this atrocious policy could better be used to promote the lives and well being of Americans and improve our infrastructure. Along with Trump's current unnecessary trade war, it is positioning him to be one of the most fiscally irresponsible presidents in our country's history.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Trump has already backtracked on the issue of separating children from parents, and the enormous, needless expenses of his toss them in jail policy will likely result in a lot more backtracking.

Trump doesn't understand the consequences of his actions. He shoots from the hip, and hope it strikes the right target. He misses most of the time. Most of his decisions backfire on him. That includes his famous wall and tariffs. Trump is not suited to lead this country. He's a child in a 70 year old body. Not mature or sensible enough to make the right decisions. He is only good at creating chaos.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

the enormous, needless expenses of his toss them in jail policy

not needless if it puts $$$ in the pockets of his elite supporters

was it a surprise that #45's elite supporters had facilities available to handle the children for $$$ ? I don't think so.

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@ehBeth,

The same problem was identified when this country put us Japanese Americans into concentration camps during WWII. That was an unnecessary expense of money and manpower when both were shortages during the war. The 442 Regimental Combat Team made up of Japanese Americans was the most decorated unit in US history. Many volunteered into the army from those camps. They fought in Europe and worked in MIS in the Pacific.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

. Many volunteered into the army from those camps.

So we should form an Army battalion of the illegal's children? Good thinking there. This is completely different. The Japanese held lived here, they did not enter the country illegally.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

For one thing, the federal government lacks the detention facilities to house them and has been scrambling--and paying top dollar--to find alternatives that will help them deal with this self created problem as fast as possible.

Build more prisons. Hire more prison guards. It really helps the economy a lot in small towns.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Then the people in Trump's Administration had better get used to bagging their lunch and dinner because there's a lot of Hispanics in the restaurant business who are well within their rights to voice their displeasure with the Adminstration's actions. And quite a few non-Hispanics who agree with them on separating parents from their children.

The Democrats will probably need to start doing the same.

Republicans always like to give the Democrats a healthy dose of their own medicine.

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Quote:

Poll: Only 25% support abolishing ICE

Amazing that number of people are that stupid. That percentage is manipulated by those who wish to destroy America, which is scary, and that has more to do with their protests than ICE.
https://hotair.com/archives/2018/07/11/poll-25-support-abolishing-ice/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=poll-25-support-abolishing-ice&utm_content=0&utm_campaign=PostPromoterPro

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@cicerone imposter,

https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/trump-stupid-people.jpg

That's probably one of the most honest things he's said--and Trump's presidency is a perfect example of that

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Trump's Harsh Words For NATO Meet With Pushback From Republicans And Democrats

Brian Naylor
July 11, 2018

While President Trump is in Brussels attacking NATO members for not spending enough on defense and calling Germany "a captive" of Russia for its support of a new pipeline to deliver Russian gas, lawmakers in Washington are standing up for the 69-year-old trans-Atlantic alliance.

The House is scheduled to take up a measure Wednesday reaffirming U.S. support for NATO. House Speaker Paul Ryan told reporters on Capitol Hill that "NATO is indispensable. It is as important today as it ever has been. We're reflecting that in a resolution that we're bring to the floor today."
The Senate voted 97-2 Tuesday night to approve a similar nonbinding resolution to reaffirm the U.S. relationship with and support for NATO.

Democratic congressional leaders issued a rare joint statement harshly condemning Trump's remarks. House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi and her Senate counterpart, Chuck Schumer said:

"President Trump's brazen insults and denigration of one of America's most steadfast allies, Germany, is an embarrassment. His behavior this morning is another profoundly disturbing signal that the President is more loyal to President Putin than to our NATO allies."

Ryan said he shared Trump's concerns over a Russian natural gas pipeline and Germany's spending on defense.

"Every time I've met with our allies in Europe I've raised those same concerns about Nord Stream II," the name of the pipeline, Ryan said. "The president is right to point out that our NATO allies need to adhere to their commitments which is 2 percent of GDP for defense. Germany is the largest economy in the EU. Germany should be committing 2 percent to defense like they agreed to at the Wales conference."

Germany has until 2024 to meet that goal.

Still, that appears not to be enough for Trump, who told NATO leaders Wednesday that they should be spending 4 percent of their GDP on defense. American officials say the U.S. is itself short of that mark, spending 3.3 percent of its GDP on defense. Trump made the same demand of NATO allies at last year's summit.

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/11/628015546/trumps-harsh-words-for-nato-meet-with-pushback-from-republicans-and-democrats

1 Reply

Republicans appear helpless to stop Trump's trade war

•Congressional Republicans who oppose President Donald Trump's tariffs appear to have little recourse to curb the president's authority to impose those duties.
•Trump raised the stakes again in a mounting trade war with China on Tuesday, proposing tariffs on $200 billion more in Chinese goods.
•The Senate is voting on a measure Wednesday to push back on Trump's tariff powers, but it does not compel lawmakers or the president to take any particular action.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/republicans-take-little-action-to-stop-trump-trade-war-with-china.html

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Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

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