50
   

Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

 
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 02:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
The relevant figure isn't the total population, but the total number of people who actually pay tax. And, you'll find that the total number of actual taxpayers is right around 100 million, so the top 1% being a million or so is right in line with what we would expect.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2015/10/06/new-estimates-of-how-many-households-pay-no-federal-income-tax/#1863020161cb

Cycloptichorn

Your estimate is off. The very article you linked points to 171 million taxpayers/tax units, which from the link I posted said the top 1% tax bracket account for 892420 people. 1% of the 171 would be 1.7 million people which the # I provided is half of that. The real question is this, what percentage of the total tax bill do does that 1% actually pay?

I personally fall into the 25% bracket based on my wife and I's joint income, 75k-150k. I'm sure you fall into a much higher tax bracket due to your already self proclaimed elite status.



Quote:
27 million American households fall into the 10% tax bracket, and 24 million fall into the 25% tax bracket. All in all, the majority of American households (77%) fall into the 15% tax bracket or below.

Only 892,420 households fall into the top income tax bracket. These households face a rate of 39.6% on their ordinary income, although they face lower rates on income from long-term capital gains and dividends. Overall, these households face an average effective tax rate of 28.5%, higher than households in any other bracket.


maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 02:28 pm
@Baldimo,
Looking at these tax brackets could you answer a question for me.

25% tax bracket maxes out at $151,900
28% tax bracket begins at $151,901

What is better for you monetarily?
a) making $151,899
b) making $151,902


cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 04:12 pm
@maporsche,
Gotta ask my boss for a cut in pay before next pay day to increase my income. Wink

Our problem in retirement is how much to withdraw from our IRA to minimize our tax liabiliity each year.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 05:01 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
Looking at these tax brackets could you answer a question for me.

25% tax bracket maxes out at $151,900
28% tax bracket begins at $151,901

What is better for you monetarily?
a) making $151,899
b) making $151,902

That's not how tax brackets usually work.

Let's say for purposes of simplicity we have three brackets:

10% up to $50,000,
20% up to $100,000, and
30% over $100,000.

Someone who makes $50,000 that year will pay 10%.

Someone who makes $100,000 that year will pay 10% on their first $50,000 and 20% on their second $50,000.

Someone who makes $500,000 that year will pay 10% on their first $50,000, 20% on their second $50,000, and 30% on their last $400,000.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 05:45 pm
@oralloy,
Yeah, I’m aware. Thing is, many many people are not aware.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 09:01 pm
I am so terrible at economics...

I swim in terminology and each time I count something I come up with a different result.

But I can reason...

The middle class pays for roads and bridges and the rich, drive their 18 wheelers across them and wear them out fast.

I am told the burden of our economy lays straight on the backs of the middle class.

That would explain why the middle class is shrinking and why the rich just get richer.

That is fundamentally not capitalism...

Capitalism requires a fair playing field.

The hand-outs are going to the rich.

The rich don't pay their fair share in taxes then, they pay senators to misdirect our taxes to benefit them.

Removing social net programs like a church getting donations to feed the poor and paying for jumbo jets and mansions with it instead.

Taxes paid by the middle class should benefit the middle class not the rich...

Now people can crunch numbers all day but in the end things needs to add up and check out and the remainder needs to balance.
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:18 pm
Founder Of Nation’s Largest Christian Festival Arrested On Multiple Child Molestation Charges [VIDEO]
http://www.joemygod.com/2017/12/14/founder-nations-largest-christian-festival-arrested-multiple-child-molestation-charges-video/

Go forth, molest in my name... (cynical)
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 01:18 am
@Baldimo,
Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
The real question is this, what percentage of the total tax bill do does that 1% actually pay?

No, that's not the real question at all. That's the question you want to talk about, but the REAL question, the question you are dodging, is how much longer can we allow the wealthy 1% to obtain more and more of the national wealth at the expense of the 99%? Well, Baldimo, how long?

https://imgur.com/WHyki02.jpg

Since Reagan got elected in 1980, the top 1% has gone from owning 24% of the country's wealth to owning 43%-that's almost a fifth of the country's wealth transferred from the 99% to the 1%. That's happened in 37 years. At this rate, in forty years the top 1% will own 99% of the USA's wealth with the rest of us owning 1%. Will you admit that something is wrong with the economy then Baldimo, or will you will continue to dodge by saying that the top 1% got all that wealth by taking advantage of the new economy, which doesn't answer the question about what do we do in forty years when the top 1% own 99% of the wealth in the country.

How about it Baldimo-what do we do when the present trends continue and the 1% own 99% of the country's wealth in forty years?

Blickers
 
  6  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 02:28 am
@Baldimo,
Take a look at some of the excuses Baldimo has come up trying to avoid the question of what we are supposed to do to prevent the top 1%, (which have increased their share of the country's wealth in the last 37 years from 24% to 43%), from owning 99% of the country's wealth in forty years, for that is the rate they have been taking the wealth from the rest of us since 1980.

Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
The problem for the last several years has been lack of growth, below 2% on average for most of Obama's administration, not including 2008 and 2009. The slowest recovery in the history of the US economy
Irrelevant and wrong. The wealthy has been accumulating an additional fifth of the economy in the past 3+ decades during times of high growth and low growth, so that dodge won't work. And when Obama first took office, the previous quarter under the previous administration the economy DECLINED-not grew-at annual rate of -8.3%. Obama's last quarter the economy grew at an annual rate of +1.7%. That's an increase of a 10.0% annual rise in GDP-hardly the slowest recovery in history. In order to match Obama's improvement in the economy, Trump has to average a GDP increase of 11.7% per year during his term, however long that is. He won't come near that.

Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
The 1%f isn't some shady group of people meeting in a dark room. If they are, they are all DNC supporters. Have you seen the top 10 richest people list? It's filled with DNC supporters,
Again, this response fails to deal with the issue being discussed, which is how do we prevent the wealthiest 1% from owning 99% of the country's wealth in forty years, because that is the rate they are gobbling up the nation's wealth.

https://imgur.com/WHyki02.jpg
I don't care if the top ten wealthiest people are democrats or republicans, I just don't want 1% of the people owning 99% of the wealth in the country, for that will bring them total political control as well as economic control.

Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
There is no way in any economy that has freedom where this will not happen.
[/color] That's odd, there are plenty of countries that have a high amount of freedom yet their 1% doesn't own 99% of their economy like our 1% is slated to do at the present rate. You have a strange idea of what the economic world looks like.

Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
There is no way the owner and founder of Amazon should own about as much of the economy as the person working in an Amazon warehouse, or even a person who works as a computer programmer for their website. If you think they should, then there really isn't anything to debate.
Quite the opposite, I made clear that I don't mind if some people are quite wealthy, as long as the economy improves so the 99% improves as well. However, the problem-which you are scrupulously avoiding answering-is that while the economy continues to grow, the wealthy 1% keep taking a bigger and bigger piece of it every year so the 99% ends up with little to no improvement in their standard of living. And you won't even address the issue.

Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
Unless they take away the ability to vote in elections, then I don't see this happening [the 99% losing political power when the 1% own 99% of the country's wealth].
Really? You don't think economic power translates into political power? Elections cost money-hell, even getting nominations costs money. Once the 1% take over 99% of the country's wealth, virtually all nominees with the money to win will be getting almost all their financial support from the 1%, since they will be the only people in the country with the wherewithal to contribute to political campaigns.When the 1% owns 99% fo the wealth, they will not be challenged politically.

Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
Support a strong 3rd party to keep the power defused down to the people instead of the hands of the 3 big parties who are the ones being bought off.
What lovely stirring words! Unfortunately, those candidates who promote the interests of the 99% won't be able to mount a serious campaign due to lack of funds, since the only source of funding will be the 1% who own everything. Who won't fund Mr, (Ms), 99%.

Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
I see what your saying but unless the rich somehow come up with a way of stopping people from starting a business, then all you are auguring with is fear mongering against the wealthy.
Very successful businessmen will join the 1%, and proceed to own their individual share of 99% of the wealth in America. So how does this change anything?

Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
You uterlly and completly fail to take into effect how our way of life has changed since the 1980's. The people who have become wealthy in the last 40 years have do by taking advantage of advancements in technology which has moved us forward.
Yes, and they have been accumulating taking all the wealth of the country away from the 99% for the past 37 years. Along with those in older industries like oil, of course. So how does this prevent the wealthy 1% from accumulating 99% of the wealth of the country, as they are on schedule to do in 40 years? It doesn't. You continue to dodge my question, because you are fine with the 1%, you think they're your kind of people.


revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 09:05 am
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
I swim in terminology and each time I count something I come up with a different result.


I hear you, I can remember in the days where such happened, having to stay after school for Mr. Mylan my teacher, trying his best to teach me complex roots. I doubt he was ever so frustrated in his life, I know my dad got frustrated with me with math, he let it show.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  4  
Reply Sun 17 Dec, 2017 08:37 am

https://i.imgur.com/H3EnfsF.jpg
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Sun 17 Dec, 2017 04:26 pm
Under Trump's tax bill, Medicare will no longer cover treatments for cancer.
Let that sink in real good.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 17 Dec, 2017 05:46 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:
Under Trump's tax bill, Medicare will no longer cover treatments for cancer.

Nonsense.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Sun 17 Dec, 2017 11:44 pm
Republican Senator Bob Corker Says He Hasn’t Read Tax Bill, Denies Quid Pro Quo

Quote:
In an exclusive interview with International Business Times, U.S. Senator Bob Corker, R-Tenn, denied knowing about a controversial last-minute provision slipped into the Republican tax bill that could personally enrich him. Corker, the lone Republican to vote against the original Senate bill, which didn't include the provision, also admitted he has not read the final tax bill he announced he will support.

A trio of Democratic Senators, meanwhile, slammed the provision, which was first reported on by IBT.

Corker’s vote is considered pivotal in the closely divided Senate and he could be in a position to make or break the landmark legislation. He declared his support for the final reconciled version of the bill on Friday after GOP lawmakers added a provision that could benefit his vast real estate holdings -- a provision that Corker denied having any knowledge of.

In a series of rapid-fire telephone interviews, Corker asked IBT for a description of the provision, and then criticized it. But minutes later, he called back to walk back that criticism, saying he wanted to further study the issue, and that it was more complex than he initially understood it to be. Despite potentially holding the fate of the entire tax bill in his hands, Corker told IBT that he has only read a short summary of the $1.4 trillion legislation.

“I had like a two-page summary I went through with leadership,” said Corker. “I never saw the actual text.” Despite not reading the bill -- and having time to read it before the final vote scheduled for this week -- he reiterated his support for the bill to IBT, support he announced hours before bill’s full text was publicly released on Friday.

Corker called IBT to respond to a series of IBT investigative reports showing that he switched his vote to “yes” on the tax legislation, only after Republican leaders added in a provision reducing taxes on income from real-estate LLCs. Federal records reviewed by IBT show Corker, a commercial real estate mogul, made up to $7 million last year from such income. President Donald Trump's financial disclosures listed between $41 million and $68 million of the same income.

After the report, Corker called IBT and asked for a detailed description of the provision, insisting he did not know about. After the provision was described, he said: “If I understand what [the provision] does, it sounds totally unnecessary and borderline ridiculous.”

A few minutes later, however, Corker called back, and tried to back off that criticism.

“I don’t really know what the provision does to be honest. I would need an accountant to explain it,” Corker said. “I had no knowledge of this and would have no knowledge of it except for you guys are calling me about it. I have no idea whatsoever whether it impacts me or doesn’t impact me.”

The provision was not included in the bills that originally passed the House and Senate. Corker previously said he opposed the legislation because he was concerned about it increasing the deficit, but on Friday he announced he would support it -- even though Congress’s own Joint Committee on Taxation projects that the legislation will increase the deficit by $1.4 trillion.

Responding to IBT's revelations, Democrats denounced the provision as a giveaway to the wealthy. Maryland Sen. Chris Van Hollen called the tax break "unconscionable." Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown denounced it as an example of a deal cut "for millionaires behind closed doors." Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee, blasted the provision in a statment to IBT.

“This new real estate carve out was airdropped in at K Street’s bidding, widens the proposed passthrough loophole and gives away an even bigger tax cut to Trump and his wealthy friends," Wyden said. "Combined with tax cuts for the one percent, these breaks create a bonanza for the politically powerful and well-connected at the expense of the middle class.”

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/corker-says-he-hasn%e2%80%99t-read-tax-bill-denies-quid-pro-quo/ar-BBGPfq4?ocid=UE13DHP
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 12:14 am
GOP Tax Bill Would Set Up Years of Challenges
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-tax-bill-would-set-up-years-of-challenges-1513557742

When Fox news owned WSJ talks of doom with the tax bill, it must be really terrible!
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 02:59 am
Trump team tries to get thousands of emails back from Mueller
https://nypost.com/2017/12/17/trump-team-tries-to-get-thousands-of-emails-back-from-mueller/

They say Trump's were obtained illegally but they had no problem reading emails illegally obtained by Wikileaks that belonged to Hillary...

Hillary's emails revealed no crimes were committed...

Hillary voluntarily relased her tax returns.

What is Trump hiding? LOL!
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 03:24 am
Track Palin, son of Sarah Palin, arrested on domestic violence charges in Alaska
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/track-palin-son-sarah-palin-arrested-domestic-violence-charges-alaska-n830626

Apples from the tree...
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 01:33 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
No, that's not the real question at all. That's the question you want to talk about, but the REAL question, the question you are dodging, is how much longer can we allow the wealthy 1% to obtain more and more of the national wealth at the expense of the 99%? Well, Baldimo, how long?

That is exactly the question. You don't want to answer it because you already know the wealthy pay more than their fair share and those in the bottom don't pay anything. Once that gets pointed out, your entire narrative falls apart. We should do everything to point out who actually pays taxes and those who don't pay anything at the federal level.

Quote:
Since Reagan got elected in 1980, the top 1% has gone from owning 24% of the country's wealth to owning 43%-that's almost a fifth of the country's wealth transferred from the 99% to the 1%. That's happened in 37 years. At this rate, in forty years the top 1% will own 99% of the USA's wealth with the rest of us owning 1%. Will you admit that something is wrong with the economy then Baldimo, or will you will continue to dodge by saying that the top 1% got all that wealth by taking advantage of the new economy, which doesn't answer the question about what do we do in forty years when the top 1% own 99% of the wealth in the country.

You have been repeating this but I don't think it tells the full story in any way.

Quote:
How about it Baldimo-what do we do when the present trends continue and the 1% own 99% of the country's wealth in forty years?

Taxation isn't the answer and you don't have an answer without taxation.

maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 01:38 pm
@Baldimo,
They don't pay more than their fair share.

Tell me who benefited more from the economic bailout, the bottom 20% or the top 20%?

When 9/11 happened and the stock market took a tank, who suffered the losses there, wealthy or the poor?

The 1% benefit the most from things like the war on terrorism. They also own something like 60% of the money in our country. They should pay at least that much in taxes, probably more to protect what they have.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 01:45 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Your estimate is off. The very article you linked points to 171 million taxpayers/tax units, which from the link I posted said the top 1% tax bracket account for 892420 people.


That same article points out that over 70 million of those people pay NO tax. So it's not accurate to call them 'taxpayers.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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