Were there negative comments when Kennedy died?

sofia

But you use the terms 'common decency' and 'well behaved'. These are entirely culturally dependent ideas. What of the Irish wake? I once saw a funeral in an animist culture. Sadness was not evident. It was loud and colorful and really very joyous and celebratory.

Of course, if one behaves much differently than the local culture holds that one ought to behave, there will be raised eyebrows and such. But there's nothing innately correct or wrong about any particular behavior outside of that local set of notions.

I don't dispute it, blatham.

It's odd to me, though, that within a culture, there can be so many variations on 'common decency' and 'well-behaved'.

BBB-- I certainly thought Camelot was overdone, and the Kennedy name on everything that didn't move was a bit much--but what myth is being assigned to Reagan?

I just heard admirers telling tales of their friendships. Nancy didn't call a journalist, trot out a record, and characterize him as a figure in a book, as Jackie did. No 'eternal flame'--no myth.

BBB

Hi. We've witnessed a created myth with the Reagan legacy over the last two decades or so. It's been quite interesting for me to see this evolve. It isn't simply a set of ideas, but a real attribute of sacredness is now attached. The defensiveness that arises when a negative is attached to Reagan's memory is marked. The recent pile-on when CBS was going to run the made for TV film on him was a good example.

The American historian Richard Hofstadter had a lovely definition for 'myth'...

"By myth I do not mean an idea that is simply false, but rather one that so effectively embodies mens' values that it profoundly influences their way of perceiving reality and hence their behavior" (from The Age of Reform, 1955).

LOL...and I just got through arguing exactly the opposite.

Did anyone catch the funeral in Simi Valley tonight? In the eulogy given by his son Ronald, I got the distinct impression that he was giving Bush a slam. He said something along the lines of "My father was a religious man, but unlike some politicians who wear their religion on their sleeve in order to gain favor from certain groups my father never.....

I had never seen young Ronald speak before. I would like to hear more. Michael Reagan you see all the time on Fox towing the party line, but Ronald seems to be a man of his own mind.

Wow! I did not see that (possibly because I didn't watch any of the ceremonies). That is an extraordinary statement given the circumstances and the dynamics of present American Republican politics. I like that guy!!

Look, you two.

A myth has got to have some story, regardless of Mr. Hofstadter's personal definition.

Some people who liked Reagan didn't like the movie. They fought it. That doesn't constitute a myth.

What's the Reagan myth?

Humans are mythmakers as a natural expression of their inner selves, as groups and as individuals. Only hitch is, there is too much information available today, more than plenty of debunkers abound. Not too many cultural myths can get off the ground in a big way anymore.

sofia....they hadn't seen it!

Mesquite--

I picked up on that, as well. It was a glancing blow to Bush. Thing is--Reagan spoke of God just as often as Bush, and invoked blessings on the nation all the time. He was also a regular fixture in Religious Right meetings. He was a Christian, moreso than Bush IMO, and believed the country was founded for God's purposes.

He never backed away from it. He also said and believed God had saved him from death (assasination) to do His work. To Ron, Jr--Bush has only said the same things Reagan said.

If anything, I think Reagan factored religion into his policies much more than I have been able to detect with George Bush.

To find the narrative to the myth, simply read any of the hagiographs to him in the conservative media.

Here are some elements...
- self made man
- simple man
- straight shooter
- defeated communism
etc

What is the weather like there on the second planet in the Alpha Centauri system?

CBS didn't show the movie because they thought they could make more money by not showing it. It had nothing to do with any myths. Enough people saw the movie and stated that it was inaccurate, and offensive. This is the same CBS that has "60 Minutes" on it, so it sure took a convincing agruement to get those execs to drop the piece. All in all, enough people thought the series was a "myth" presented as fact as it should not have been.

tony

Can you provide some evidence for any of those claims?

Blatham--

You must not have read or listened to Reagan. Foxfyre is correct. I listen to a religious radio station sometimes, and Reagan gave interviews to them constantly. This week, they have repeated alot of them--and Reagan is decidedly to the right of Bush. He was much more conservative--and agreeable to Religious Right platforms and policies than Bush is.

Blatham, re:myth-- Reagan's life does point to the fact that he was a self-made man. He was born to poor parents--an alcoholic father--

His friends AND adversaries said he was a straight shooter. Ask Gorby. There are too many witnesses to his life, who make these statements. People, who began as adversaries. Republicans give Gorby and the failure of Communism equal billing to Reagan in the collapse of Communism--but he had a pivotal, planned role. He is the American player, and that is why we give him so much credence. He began fighting Communism before he was elected. He intentionally sought to bring it down--and he did. He may not have been able to without Thatcher, Gorby, and the fact that Communism was imploding anyway--but that doesn't lessen his actions and result.

I challenge anyone to refute the facts you presented. No myth.

And, the movie script had been read before showing.

Gorby himself admitted that it was Reagan that brought the U.S.S.R. to its knees. They tried to match him bluff for bluff, missile for missile, new technology for new technology and it bankrupted them. The SDI thing was the straw that broke the camel's back.

One of my memories of Reagan was when he proposed SDI (that Star Wars thing) he suggested we build it and then give it to everybody. And with everybody having it nobody would feel threatened and it would render the threat of nuclear war passe. The Democrats had a conniption fit--the very idea he would give others American technology! Then they mostly opposed SDI.

Exactly on SDI. He sought to end the arms race.

I was seven when JFK died. I don't really remember what the press said about him then.

What religious ideas Reagan had in his head and what ideas Bush has in his head are greatly irrelevant, even if knowable.

Reagan did precede Bush junior in speaking to, and politicing to, the religious right, for sure.

He also sought to appoint justices who would find in the direction of his and/or the religious right's preferences.

But in terms of national policies and administration apointments which would pander to or match the preferences of the religious right, he did not come close to what Bush has been doing.