Who do You Blame Most for our Crap Public Education System?

Forums: Politics, Education
Email this Topic • Print this Page

The Blame Game

Who’s really holding back innovation in schools—teachers or administrators?

Quote:

Clear definitions and methods of classification are the fundamental building blocks of good communication. Without a shared language, Millstone explains, administrators struggle to know how to "identify and reward teachers for finding and integrating innovative tools into their curriculum." Lacking good ways to incentivize teachers to try new things, administrators appear not to be providing the kind of support that teachers deserve. Millstone guesses that this communication breakdown causes some teachers to use lack of professional development as the go-to excuse.  

Absent a foundation for good communication, the professional culture around education technology and innovative pedagogy sounds like a dysfunctional marriage where both spouses want more romance and affection but each blames the other for an uninspired sex life. With the exception of a few schools and districts, the relationship between teachers and administrators is hindered by a giant communication gap. Like a bad cliché of family therapy, they both want the same thing but don’t know how to say it.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/12/who_s_stopping_innovation_in_schools_teachers_or_administrators.html

The choices as I see them

1) the kids

2) the parents

3) the teachers

4) the administrators

5) the taxpayers

6) the political bosses

7) teacher training schools

their contributions

1) lazy, not interested in learning

2) throw a fit when ever anyone leaves their precious bundles stressed and not happy, demand to be told that their kids are great, expect the schools to function as ticket punchers

3) often seem to be more interested in replicating their opinions than in providing an education, tend to latch on to the latest teaching gimmick, unwilling to deal with the blowback from imposing standards in the classroom, seem incapable of motivating the students to learn,

4) roll over for angry parents far too often, spend almost all of their time placating the various stakeholders rather than optimizing schools for education, spearhead the zero tolerance bullshit, dont support those teacher who attempt to demand educational standards.

5) many (not I) claim not willing to provide the required financial resources.

6) make demands on the schools that suck up wads of money (no child left behind et all), demand over testing, demand that the schools work on the latest political project rather than education (bullying, healthy eating, volunteerism, save the planet, reorder gender relations.... advantage the females over the males , mainstreaming (putting disturbed/defective kids in the classroom where they dont belong), sing the praises of racial minorities)

7) certifying individuals to teach who know little about the subject matter, not making a stand for demanding that schools function primarily as education institutions, letting education theory get disconnected from the reality teachers face in school much like philosophy pretty much died by become so specialized and esoteric that it became useless to real people.

I think I have to go with 2, the parents. They are the ones who have primary responsibility for looking out for their kids best interest, they are in the schools constantly and live with their kids and so should know that something has gone wrong, parents are the ones who had the primary responsibility to make sure that the schools educate....and yet they seem to rarely care that schools do it poorly.

What say you?

Topic Stats
Top Replies
Link to this Topic

Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 2,385 • Replies: 33

No top replies

BTW I disagree with the focus of the slate piece, I dont think a failure of language is the problem between admin and teachers, the problem is lack of mutual trust. Admin does not trust teachers to teach, and teachers dont trust admin to protect them from loney/abusive parents.

0 Replies

The public education system works perfectly fine (for most of us). The problems are in schools in low income areas... but my kids have received very educations (and have successful careers to show for it) from public education.

1 Reply

Bill Gates, Pearson Publishing, the Koch brothers, and the Walton family.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

The public education system works perfectly fine (for most of us).

By pretty much any standard our school do not perform perfectly fine...just as we see with the medical system we spend gobs of money on it and get in return far less than a long list of other nations get for less money.

0 Replies

@boomerang,

Good point, I forgot all about the pressure groups.

I also should have added to my list the Unions I suppose, but I consider them the responsibility of the teachers.

TextBook publishers? I have a real problem with how Texas, NY and California get to dictate what the publishers publish, but I hold the political bosses responsible for that problem. I dont believe that states should be approving books, I say let the market provide as many books as it wants and then let the districts decide which ones to use.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Hmmmm Hawkeye. When you talk about your narrative on how bad things are... and when I see the search for culprits and evidence to support your narrative, I have to check which thread I am on.

You sound just like a feminist.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

In my district we spend over $12k a year per kid, and we get a middling for the USA result. This is not OK with me. Nationwide our education value in return for money sucks, we need to figure out why and fix it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TofI4RAhny8/Tnj67CJbHOI/AAAAAAAAAak/kF3U2BMlBWU/s1600/20110917_FBC585_0.gif

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4f0b5867eab8ea4c24000033/spending-per-pupil-by-country.jpg

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

1. Comparing dollar expenditures isn't valid. Salaries are higher in the US, meaning that of education is more expensive by default. Try comparing expenditures by percent of GDP and you will see that we are right in line.

2. There is also no correlation between these tests and things that matter... like worker productivity for instance.

I am quite confident that my kids are getting a far better education in US than kids from families of a comparable social level are getting in China. These tests results clearly don't measure the quality of education received or correspond to any economic measure.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

I can compare my father's stories of his education, my education and my children's education and the slope is clearly towards improvement. My children have access to classes I never thought kids in public education would ever get to take. They are pushed harder and get opportunities earlier than I could ever have dreamed of when I was in high school. The same is true at all four area high schools regardless of demographics. I'm not sure what your complaint is. Like Max said, the problem is getting the education to the poorest areas, not the overall mean.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/figures/images/figure-cmd-3.gif

while it is true that the real money drain is the university system, which both spends way too much per student and enrolls too many students, our public schools are funded very well, and yet produce test results worse than about two dozen other nations.

Quote:

There is also no correlation between these tests and things that matter... like worker productivity for instance.

You realize of course that the nations employers routinely bitch about the education level of the American citizen. Then there is the whole matter of how the American people act when it comes to civics and how astounding easy it is to lie to them. No matter how you look at it the argument that the schools are fine does not hold up,

0 Replies

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

I can compare my father's stories of his education, my education and my children's education and the slope is clearly towards improvement. My children have access to classes I never thought kids in public education would ever get to take. They are pushed harder and get opportunities earlier than I could ever have dreamed of when I was in high school. The same is true at all four area high schools regardless of demographics. I'm not sure what your complaint is. Like Max said, the problem is getting the education to the poorest areas, not the overall mean.

So what, you want the US system to be judged on its best schools, but compare that result with other nations average results? Lets compare apples to apples MKay?

While I dont know where you live it is a safe bet that your are in the top 5% of American earners, and that you live in an enclave along with high numbers of your class, thus you have a school system that reflects your class privilege. The education that your kids get thus would say very little about american education as a whole.

However, I see that we should add another option to the list: the practice of funding schools at the local level. I dont think that doing away with it would advance education, but I am opposed to it on moral grounds as it encourages class segregation which I believe weakens the nation.

BTW: my problem is lack of value per dollar spent.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I'm with max -- test scores are not a good gauge of school performance.

I love Yong Zhao's takedown of PISA (5 parts); here's part 1:

http://zhaolearning.com/2014/03/09/how-does-pisa-put-the-world-at-risk-part-1-romanticizing-misery/

1 Reply

@boomerang,

Quote:

I'm with max -- test scores are not a good gauge of school performance.

Then you need to have another one that you consider better, unless you intend to not attempt to evaluate how our schools are doing.

I am willing to discuss yardsticks. Which one shall we use?

2 Replies

I don't have anything scientific at my quick disposal, but I have heard frequently that Americans perform poorly in common educational categories.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

just one example

Quote:

Despite this interest in and value of economics, most adults and students have not
mastered basic economic concepts. Adults and students were given a 24 question
quiz in economics and personal finance. The quiz covered the 20 economic content
standards developed by NCEE, plus additional concepts related to personal finance.
Based on this quiz, adults get a grade of 70 (C) for their knowledge of economics, and
students’ average score is 53 (F). Six in ten high school students and more than
one-quarter of adults get a failing grade on the Economics Quiz. One-third of adults
show a good understanding of the content specified in the standards and get an “A” or
“B”. One in eleven high school students does this well.
The content standards covered by the quiz reflect the essential principles of
economics. The standards encompass concepts such as scarcity, allocation of goods
and services, role of competition, role of money, and specialization and trade. In a
global economy, understanding trade has particular resonance. On the quiz, adults
and students were asked about the effects of limiting trade and the impact of the
exchange rate on the purchase of goods and services.

http://www.councilforeconed.org/cel/WhatAmericansKnowAboutEconomics_042605-3.pdf

All one needs to do to document the failure of the schools is to talk to one of its products for 10 minutes. Most graduates understand very little about how things work, or know anything about history, or can locate a country on a map much less know anything about it or its people.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

So what, you want the US system to be judged on its best schools, but compare that result with other nations average results?

No, I think my home town is reasonably typical for the US in terms of income. In terms of poverty, we probably are better than the big cities, but typical for cities our size.

hawkeye10 wrote:

While I dont know where you live it is a safe bet that your are in the top 5% of American earners, and that you live in an enclave along with high numbers of your class, thus you have a school system that reflects your class privilege.

Yes and no. Yes, I am in the top 5% but no, I don't live in a secluded community. Our high school system encompasses inner city areas, busing issues, crime problems and a wide spectrum of household incomes. In terms of the community served, the school my children go to and the one I went to are pretty similar.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

I am willing to discuss yardsticks. Which one shall we use?

How about worker productivity?

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

The point is that America apparently does poorly compared to other countries. That is a harder claim to dispel than a claim that Americans aren't knowledgeable in some area.

0 Replies

@engineer,

I assume this is what you are talking about

http://www.exploringcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/AP-exams-1997-2011.png

In 97 there were 2.7 million grads, so I get roughly 135000 took the calc AP test or 5%

2011 has 3.4 million grads and about 330000 took the test or 9.7%

http://www.wiche.edu/info/publications/knocking-8th/ch2.pdf

assuming that the test has not been dumbed down and that grades are similar you have a good point.

but lets remember that this is an America were the haves keep getting more and the have nots keep getting less, this does not show that the average is getting better when it comes to education.

EDIT: come to think of it this does not even show that more people are learning advanced things...todays parents often consider getting their kids into the best schools as warfare and almost a full time job, they are pushing their kids to get the documentation needed to get into the best colleges. Are more high school kids learning calculus or learning it better? Perhaps, but I dont think more people taking the ap test proves it. Maybe more of the kids who learn calculus are taking the AP test to prove that they learned it.

1 Reply

Who do You Blame Most for our Crap Public Education System?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know