19
   

Sony Cowardly Caves into Terrorists' Demands

 
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:33 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

So they made what you consider to be a bad business decision. So what?


It's an atrocious business decision.
Quote:
Sony Pictures will take an estimated $90 million financial hit as a result of its decision to scrap the release of “The Interview,” TheWrap has learned.

http://www.thewrap.com/sony-hack-guess-how-much-pulling-the-interview-will-cost-the-studio-exclusive/
That's the number they're releasing. It could in theory have been higher.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:53 am
@chai2,
Quote:
If sony releases the movie, and some people do get killed, are the families going to care about Sony's stock?

Who would have thunk that you and Max were pulling the Fox News fearmongering nonsense. Every intelligence agency have been claiming the threat isn't viable.
Quote:
The US Department of Homeland Security said there was "no credible intelligence" of an active violent plot against cinemas.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11300487/Sony-cancels-The-Interview-release-over-hacker-threats.html
Quote:

Sony is not a government. It's not it's place to play the hero.

That's just goofy irrelevant when you're the one repeatedly arguing they're a business and this is a bad business decision. Sony's studio is on the edge of bankruptcy. You don't think negative publicity plus bad business decisions and further financial losses elsewhere are what keep businesses and ultimately its thousands of employees employed and in business?

Sony is bleeding money from its TV manufacturing business. Sony also killed its computer business. Sony bleeding money from its smartphone business. It's Playstation sales have considerably dropped and for the first time ever been topped by Microsoft and XBox.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/25/us-sony-outlook-idUSKCN0J903A20141125
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20141218/business/141218458/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/sonys-tv-business-mends-but-will-it-be-enough-1418407891

If you knew what you were talking about then you would know that Sony's biggest enemy isn't North Korea but its South Korean competition.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:56 am
@izzythepush,
Where did I say it wasn't?


Sony was meant to be sonny, wasn't it?


Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:01 pm
@Lordyaswas,
If the inference was that I missed America out of the equation because I thought that Sony was American, then no.....everyone knows Sony is Japanese.

I missed America out of the equation because of the fact that they a)Tend to believe this sort of hysteria,
and b) They are very wary of litigation over there, and would probably have a bank of lawyers in the boardroom advising against release.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:37 pm
@tsarstepan,
Well, I take heart that I'm also siding with ehBeth.

Just as I'm not going to take insult I'm compared to Max in this instance, I'm not going to pony up and go to a movie just to show some sort of American pride.

Why do you have such an interest in how Sony's business is doing?

Yeah, they are a business, and if they made a bad business decision, that's their problem.

If they go out of business, other business will take their place, and the people who work at Sony will get jobs there.

Things change, suceed, fail all the time. That's life.

If Sony is worried, it shouldn't be about some bad movie, its concern should be over the lawsuits over peoples hacked info.

Jesus, get some perspective, it's a ******* entertainment company.

So what are you going to do? Boycott Sony just like you jumped on the bandwagon of refusing to have a certain brand of spaghetti in your house?

My priority is not getting killed to prove some stupid point.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:59 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I don see why anyone should be upset with Sony. They don´t defend freedom or stand up to tyranny. They make movies and sell stuff.


I bet there's a ton of libertarian types who agree with Milton Friedman's ideas on corporate ethics on most days but are completely losing it over this. They have no problem with squalid working conditions and chaining children to machines, but THIS ... this matters.... Suddenly corporations are supposed to be moral agents.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 01:01 pm
@ehBeth,
I doubt it, ebeth.

There has been a stack of very embarrassing hacked and leaked internal emails so far, and I honestly think they had a stash of photos showing the CEO blowing the pool boy or something, so if anyone wants to find a reason why a high status Japanese man has publicly turned chicken, I would imagine that the unreleased emails and other stuff is the way to go, plus the predictable fear factor in the USA.

I suppose that one has to realise that N Korea is not that far from Japan, I suppose. Plus it's all organised by China imo, so that makes it a bit more serious.
As far as America is concerned, they shouldn't take N. Korean cinema attacks over there seriously, as their Security Services would see them coming a mile off

They're the ones with funny haircuts.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 01:08 pm
@Lordyaswas,
You doubt it's a crap film? or that crap films have been pulled from release in the past?

I don't think the terrorist demands have anything to do with what's going on at Sony. I think the terrorist demands are a very convenient version of "squirrel" for both the crap film and the leaked Sony info.

I smell stinky stuff.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 01:08 pm
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:


I bet there's a ton of libertarian types who agree with Milton Friedman's ideas on corporate ethics on most days but are completely losing it over this. They have no problem with squalid working conditions and chaining children to machines, but THIS ... this matters.... Suddenly corporations are supposed to be moral agents.



Thank you.

tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 01:16 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

Just as I'm not going to take insult I'm compared to Max in this instance, I'm not going to pony up and go to a movie just to show some sort of American pride.

It's a movie by Seth Rogan and James Franco are very funny actors who deserve to have their movie screened.

Quote:
Yeah, they are a business, and if they made a bad business decision, that's their problem.

If they go out of business, other business will take their place, and the people who work at Sony will get jobs there.

Things change, suceed, fail all the time. That's life.

For someone who claims not to care, you're making a bit of a fuss over what you claim is nothing at all. If you really don't care at all, why are you still in on the conversation? Seriously?

Quote:
Jesus, get some perspective, it's a ******* entertainment company.

You probably should go off grid and live the life of a hermit. Clearly you don't find passion or enjoyment from life. Some people appreciate other things. I appreciate good movies. I'm glad that Sony is still an innovator in technology.

Quote:
So what are you going to do? Boycott Sony just like you jumped on the bandwagon of refusing to have a certain brand of spaghetti in your house?

Bugger off. I was just starting a conversation. And I only said it a few hundred times in that thread. It's good to know that you don't have any principles. At all. Good to know you don't actually like to have a given knowledge of any given subject you go and rant about.

Quote:
My priority is not getting killed to prove some stupid point.

Rolling Eyes I love statements that aren't backed by facts and have no basis in reality.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 01:24 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

You doubt it's a crap film? or that crap films have been pulled from release in the past?

I don't think the terrorist demands have anything to do with what's going on at Sony. I think the terrorist demands are a very convenient version of "squirrel" for both the crap film and the leaked Sony info.

I smell stinky stuff.

You're not particularly wise when it comes to box office intakes and business. So? A $90+ million loss is a better alternative then their likely breaking even with its theatrical release? I could list several dozen really bad movies that made their money back as well as hundreds of critically lambasted movies that made a profit, regardless of whether you liked the film, had no interest in the film, hated the film, or not. In fact, they're job was made easier marketing wise because of the scandal. They could have easily stopped wasting more money on marketing (if you know anything about movies, marketing is as costly for a studio as the production costs). So in theory, they probably would have had a higher profit margin if they released the film into theaters since they had all of this free publicity.

Still, not sure why people are glossing over the business end of this failure and OCD fetishizing the theatrical release as middle finger to North Korea.

Sorry I used a hyperbolic title. No one reads and participates in my box office threads, and this one would be ignored if I titled it Sony Loses $90 million by shooting self in foot.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 01:29 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

Kolyo wrote:


I bet there's a ton of libertarian types who agree with Milton Friedman's ideas on corporate ethics on most days but are completely losing it over this. They have no problem with squalid working conditions and chaining children to machines, but THIS ... this matters.... Suddenly corporations are supposed to be moral agents.



Thank you.



Ironic considering your stance Chai is insanely libertarian. Pretty irrational like most libertarian ideologues.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 03:20 pm
@tsarstepan,
Why do you turn every discussion into a personal attack Tsarstepan? It would be nice to be able to be in a thread with you that didn't devolve into personal insults.

Chai and I can manage to be decent to each other in spite of us having bumped heads on other threads. I appreciate that from Chai, it makes the world a little better for everyone. It doesn't make sense to carry grudges from thread to thread.

Considering the season, do you think you could manage, maybe for just a little bit?

chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 03:38 pm
@tsarstepan,


Quote:
My priority is not getting killed to prove some stupid point.

Rolling Eyes I love statements that aren't backed by facts and have no basis in reality.
[/quote]

So......

Sony cancels 'The Interview' as US links hack to North Korea
Bowing to pressure from hackers who threatened theatergoers with a terrorist attack, Sony halts release of the comedy focused on North Korea as the US says it has evidence North Korea was behind the attack.

and

Earlier this week hacking group, which uses the name Guardians of the Peace issued threats against movie-goers and cinemas and invoked the memory of the September 11, 2001 terrorist atrocities.

etc. Has not been in the news?

As far as making a fuss, I'm addressing the fact that anyone can make such a big deal over cancelling a movie.

Yeah, I get it, you really like movies. A lot of people really like movies. There's a lot of movies I like.
Is it the end of the world that this movie isn't being released?

Its a movie....that's all it is. It's not a cure for cancer or even a remedy for the common cold. It's a movie.
So these 2 people are very funny people. Yeah, and? Situations come up that pervent any of us from getting what we "deserve". That's life.

And what exactly (not that I'm one) is wrong with being a hermit, if that's what a person chooses to be?

Am I supposed to be upset/insulted by your calling me a hermit, or immoral, unethical? This is like a 3rd grade school tactique.

I didn't say there's anything wrong with enjoying movies, or whatever else someone has a passion for.
It's a matter of putting it in perspective, and weighing if someone making threats agains movie houses and movie goers is worth risking someones safety.

You can watch it when it goes to view on demand, or hulu or netflix.




0 Replies
 
roger
 
  4  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 03:50 pm
@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

It would be nice to be able to be in a thread with you that didn't devolve into personal insults.


It would be nice to be in any thread that didn't devolve into personal insults. It ain't even happening in "What made you smile".
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 04:11 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:



Still, not sure why people are glossing over the business end of this failure and OCD fetishizing the theatrical release as middle finger to North Korea.

Sorry I used a hyperbolic title. No one reads and participates in my box office threads, and this one would be ignored if I titled it Sony Loses $90 million by shooting self in foot.



You want business end? Fine. Sony has been in the crapper for a decade. Here's their Return On Investment Capital since 2005. (numbers below post) They has one year that they barely managed to drag themselves over 3%d

Their Net Profit Margin is equally abysmal. All their numbers suck. I'm talking their earnings per share, earnings per share growth rate, sales growth rate, return on equity. Their ability to pay back liabilities is under 1, meaning they can't and haven't been able to for quite a few years, to pay their debts.

Their losing $90 mil can be seen as putting them out of their misery.

Make up your mind tsar. Do you want to talk about how Sony is a coward and has some kind of moral obligation to stand up and take one for the Gipper, or do you want to talk about how as a business they've been doing very poorly for the last decade?

Your choice.

ROIC:
2005 1.63%
2006 1.12%
2007 0.44%
2008 3.19%
2009 -0.93%
2010 0.11%
2011 -1.86%
2012 -3.24%
2013 0.76%
2014 -0.49%
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 05:12 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:



Still, not sure why people are glossing over the business end of this failure and OCD fetishizing the theatrical release as middle finger to North Korea.




Probably because in addition to the title, your first words were....

Sony kowtows to the criminal hackers and pulls the theatrical and VOD release of the highly anticipated comedy, The Interview (2014).


I just went back and tried to carefully read through the entire thread.

tsar, you don't want to talk about how some people think this should be used as a stand against N Korea, but you also don't seem to want anyone to talk about the money/business part of it either, except maybe to tell someone they don't know the business of it, and that they are glossing over it.

At this point, I'm not at all clear on what it is you want to talk about, except that you're personally upset you won't get to watch one movie on a particular day.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 06:46 pm

Michael Moore
5 mins ·
EXCLUSIVE: SONY HACKERS ISSUE NEW LIST OF DEMANDS: “NO MORE SEQUELS. NO MORE EIGHT-DOLLAR POPCORN."
The North Korean hackers at Sony Pictures, now emboldened by Sony cancelling its release of the comedy “The Interview", have issued a new list of demands that have been obtained exclusively by MichaelMoore.com. They are:
“1. Any studio who gives away the ending of a movie in the trailer, or who has placed every single funny line that exists in a movie inside the trailer, will be shown their own particular ending.
“2. No movie shall be longer than two hours. If you can’t tell your story in less than two hours, you are creatively lost and in need a new line of work. Only true masterpieces may exceed the two-hour time limit. And that doesn’t mean you, Mr. Lars von Trier.
“3. Theaters may not charge patrons more for 3D movies. Studios who use 3D in a movie when it isn’t necessary, shall be met with a serious 2D response.
“4. Unless the sequel you’ve made matches the quality of ‘Godfather II’, all other sequels are now banned. And if you’ve made ‘Godfather II’, that does not give you the right to make ‘Godfather III’.
“5. Anyone caught texting or talking on a cell phone during a movie will be subjected to forced rectal rehydration (yes, we are plagiarizing from the CIA. So what? Nolan didn't see '2001: A Space Odyssey'?)
“6. Theaters must present the movies as if they are works of art, making sure that the sound and picture are perfect, the seats are comfortable, the auditoriums are clean and no TV commercials are shown before the movie. People did not pay $12 to watch TV commercials. They paid that money to watch ‘Transformers 9’.
“7. Popcorn must not cost more than $2. Any theater owner who says, ‘We make our money on the popcorn!’ shall be hence banned from selling popcorn. Theaters shall also be banned from selling pizza, sushi, sloppy joes, GoGurt®, sauerkraut or anything with curry in it.
“8. Liam Neeson may continue making those ‘Taken’ movies. We like them.”
The hackers stated they will have further demands forthcoming, hinting neither 'Annie' nor 'Paul Blart: Mall Cop 2' were safe.
0 Replies
 
carloslebaron
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2014 09:21 pm
What I can read is that Sony Pictures Entertainment is American

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Entertainment

Quote:
""For the Japanese film company within the Sony corporation, see Sony Pictures Entertainment Japan.""

Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc.

Sony Pictures logo.svg

Type
Subsidiary of Sony[1]

Industry
Entertainment

Founded
December 21, 1987 as Columbia Pictures Entertainment, Inc.,[2] renamed Sony Pictures Entertainment, Inc. on August 7, 1991

Headquarters
10202 West Washington Blvd., Culver City, California, United States

Area served
Worldwide

Key people
Michael Lynton
(Chairman & CEO)
Amy Pascal
(Co-Chairman)
Doug Belgrad
(President)

Products
Motion pictures
Television Production
Television Syndication
Online games
Mobile Entertainment
Video on demand
Digital distribution

Revenue
Increase US$ 8.054 billion (FY2014)[3]

Operating income
Increase US$ 501 million (FY2013)[3]

Parent
Sony Corporation

Website
Global site

Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc. (SPE) is the American entertainment subsidiary of Japanese multinational technology and media conglomerate Sony. Based in Culver City, California, it encompasses Sony's motion picture, television production and distribution units. Its group sales in the fiscal year ended March 31, 2014 has been reported to be of $8.054 billion



Sony, the main brand is from Japan, but the subsidiary, the American Sony company is the one compromised with the comedy movie against the North Korea leader

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davelewis/2014/11/24/sony-pictures-hacked-and-blackmailed/

Quote:
Sony Pictures Hacked And Blackmailed

What a horrible way to start a Thanksgiving week in the US. Staff at Sony Pictures were greeted by compromised corporate systems today and apparently the attackers made of with data…lots of data. Staff were unable to access email and were apparently greeted by a wallpaper on corporate systems of a skeleton and a message “Hacked by #GOP. Warning: We’ve already warned you, and this is just the beginning. We have obtained all your internal data including secrets and top secrets.” Ouch.


Apparently, the "American Sony" is the one that "Cowardly Caves into Terrorists' Demands".

0 Replies
 
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2014 03:48 am
All I'm gonna say about this Sony stuff is that Spider-Man had better end up in the Avengers universe, because those last 2 Spider-Man movies were TERRIBLE.
0 Replies
 
 

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