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Are there any peaceful muslim nations?

 
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  2  
Tue 18 Jun, 2019 03:26 pm
@coldjoint,
That's your own interpretation, I have explained my point of view earlier. Quran is full of such verses and those are applicable only to self defense and against oppression. You gave me example of Badr and I told you to look where Badr is located and you just could not do such simple search in google to find out all the garbage you have against Muslims is nothing but Islamophobia.

Anyways I am here to have a respectful dialogue and if you are really sincere bring any evidence and don't use unreliable source such as Wikipedia etc. I can answer your questions but only if you are will to read them and not copy/paste hate literature.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Tue 18 Jun, 2019 03:26 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
Some people just like to hate and you are unfortunately one of them.

Some religions like to hate. Islam is one of those. There is no hate in my posts, just facts. The hate comes from Islam, not me.
HabibUrrehman
 
  2  
Tue 18 Jun, 2019 03:31 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Some religions like to hate. Islam is one of those. There is no hate in my posts, just facts. The hate comes from Islam, not me.


That's the problem, you are saying thing without any facts. Anyways, I am giving you one more chance and hope you will respectful and more factual.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2019 03:54 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
That's the problem, you are saying thing without any facts.

What I said about the Hindu massacres were facts, and still are.

What I said about Muhammad using terror is a fact.

Quote:

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot. (See also: Response to Apologists)

That proves you are lying about self defense. So does this.

Quote:
Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."

and this.
Quote:
"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)

https://thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
HabibUrrehman
 
  2  
Tue 18 Jun, 2019 04:20 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
What I said about the Hindu massacres were facts, and still are.

The fact that there are more Hindus in subcontinent today than Muslims is enough to refute your claim. Just use your common sense and educate yourself on history.
Quote:

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot. (See also: Response to Apologists)


You choose one verse with no context and copied a commentary from Christian websites whose love for Muslims is well known ( that sarcasm is case you miss understand that).

Let me copy the translation of verse 216 & 217 an dread the together to figure this out for yourself.

"Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not. They ask you about the sacred month - about fighting therein. Say, "Fighting therein is great [sin], but averting [people] from the way of Allah and disbelief in Him and [preventing access to] al-Masjid al-Haram and the expulsion of its people therefrom are greater [evil] in the sight of Allah . And fitnah is greater than killing." And they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they are able. And whoever of you reverts from his religion [to disbelief] and dies while he is a disbeliever - for those, their deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the companions of the Fire, they will abide therein eternally." (2:216-217)

verse 217 is clearly talking about oppression.
Quote:
Quote:
"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)


Thanks for posting the link which clearly shows it is taken from islamophobia website. If you really want to learn about Islam, ask Muslim scholars. Go to a mosque and ask these question. This is my sincere advise. It seems like you don't have any personal experience in dealing with Muslims and all of your information is based on resources who aim to spread Islamophobia.

Anyways going back to Hadith you quoted, it was Bani Al-Mustaliq who FIRST started, read the following.
News reached the Prophet (PBUH) on Sha’ban 2nd. To the effect that the chief of Bani Al-Mustaliq, Al-Harith bin Dirar had mobilized his men, along with some Arabs, to attack Madinah. Buraidah bin Al-Haseeb Al-Aslami was immediately dispatched to verify the reports. He had some words with Abi Dirar, who confirmed his intention of war. He later sent a reconnoiterer to explore the positions of the Muslims but he was captured and killed. The Prophet (PBUH) summoned his men and ordered them to prepare for war. Before leaving, Zaid bin Haritha was mandated to see to the affairs of Madinah and dispose them. On hearing the advent of the Muslims, the disbelievers got frightened and the Arabs going with them defected and ran away to their lives. Abu Bakr was entrusted with the banner of the Emigrants, and that of the Helpers went to Sa’ad bin Ubada. The two armies were stationed at a well called Muraisi. Arrow shooting went on for an hour, and then the Muslims rushed and engaged with the enemy in a battle that ended in full victory for the Muslims. Some men were killed, women and children of the disbelievers taken as captives, and a lot of booty fell to the lot of the Muslims. Only one Muslim was killed by mistake by a Helper. Amongst the captives was Juwairiyah, daughter of Al-Harith, chief of the disbelievers. The Prophet (pbuh)married her and, in compensation, the Muslims had to manumit a hundred others of the enemy prisoners who embraced Islam, and were then called the Prophet’s in-laws.

Below are my resources:
Za’d Al-Ma’ad 2/112,113; Ibn Hisham 2/289,290,294,295
This was also narrated by Aasim bin Amr bin Qutada and collected by Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani in Fathul Bari (496/7).
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2019 04:37 pm
@HabibUrrehman,

Quote:
The fact that there are more Hindus in subcontinent today than Muslims is enough to refute your claim.

No it does not. Population has nothing to do with the massacres that happened. Verified historical fact.

Quote:
You choose one verse with no context and copied a commentary from Christian websites

The verse is still the verse and says the same thing. Christians have nothing to do with it.
Quote:
Islamophobia.

No such word or fear. Rational fear of Islam is very much in play. Here are some Islamophobes for you

Quote:
Other Recent "Misunderstandings
of Islam"

2019.06.18 (Cameroon)
Islamists murder a Christian woman and a teenager.

2019.06.17 (Afghanistan)
Fundamentalists blow the legs off a woman and vaporize her 10-year-old daughter.

2019.06.17 (Pakistan)
A blogger who questioned traditional Islam is knifed to death.

2019.06.16 (Nigeria)
Three suicide bombers murder thirty innocents at a tea shop and film center.

2019.06.15 (Thailand)
An elderly Buddhist couple are shot to death while walking home from their work at a restaurant.

2019.06.15 (Somalia)
A suicide car bomber sends eleven bystanders to Allah.

(Note: Data for each attack is sometimes pulled from multiple sources. The provided link may not be in complete agreement with the updated detail for the incident).

https://thereligionofpeace.com/
HabibUrrehman
 
  2  
Tue 18 Jun, 2019 05:09 pm
@coldjoint,
We have to agree to disagree. You got your religion and I got mine. No one forced anyone and we are both responsible for the choices we made.

Peace.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Tue 18 Jun, 2019 05:19 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
You got your religion and I got mine.

True. If you think that means you can lie about Islam and its agenda, no cigar. Also that is an abrogated verse.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 02:23 am
@HabibUrrehman,
HabibUrrehman wrote:
If you are pointing towards ISIS and Al-Qaida, then you should know who created them.

al-Qa'ida was created by Saudi Arabia.

Islamic State was created by Bashar al-Assad.

The US had nothing to do with the creation of either.


HabibUrrehman wrote:
But regardless of what caused 9/11, my question is that for the death of 3000 innocent people US got license to attack Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now Iran is going to be next. What should we make out of this?

The lesson is: Don't kill Americans.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 02:24 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
We did indeed aid the Afghanistan resistance to the Soviet invasion, but we did not create ISIS.

That doesn't mean that we had anything to do with al-Qa'ida. Our money went to the Taliban, not to al-Qa'ida.

Our responsibility for the Taliban is limited as well. We gave the money to Pakistan to build a resistance. It was Pakistan's decision to use this money to support the radical nutcases who became the Taliban.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 02:25 am
@HabibUrrehman,
HabibUrrehman wrote:
But I won't stop there.
America is also partially responsible for creating an environment where ISIS could survive.

That is incorrect. Bashar al-Assad is entirely responsible for the environment that allowed Islamic State to come into being and then thrive.


HabibUrrehman wrote:
We don't have the greatest track record for helping the people of the Middle East. We helped take down Muammar Gaddafi, who was without a doubt better for Libya than the current “government” there; to quote old Ben Kenobi, “you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy,” which is really a shame, since Gaddafi (who was by no means great) had a lot of policies that encouraged education (literacy rate skyrocketed, programs that even had the government pay your bills to help you get an education abroad) and protected his people.

That's just too bad. Kadaffy was a murdering scumbag, and he needed to be killed.


HabibUrrehman wrote:
America did support Hussein when he was fighting Iran, but we used his invasion of Quwait to take him down (even though Quwait started the conflict by trying to seize Iraqi oil fields).

Kuwait did nothing of the sort.


HabibUrrehman wrote:
So you can understand why Syria is hesitant to let go of the Ba'ath Party (which Russia has supported for decades, since the times of the “Empire of Evil™”) and Bashar al Assad.

Syria is not willingly keeping the Ba'ath Party. They just have no power to remove the Ba'ath Party.


HabibUrrehman wrote:
He's not perfect, but he's a hell of a lot better than ISIS, who has had a strong presence in every country whose government we've taken down.

That is incorrect. Bashar al-Assad is equally as bad as Islamic State.


HabibUrrehman wrote:
Assad also demonstrably didn't gas his own people, there's plenty of evidence that the Syrian government has no chemical weapons and the rebels were the ones who carried out the attack.

That is incorrect. Bashar al-Assad regularly uses chemical weapons to massacre civilians.


HabibUrrehman wrote:
The American government has been supporting anti-Assad rebels. As in, Al Nusra, which is an affiliate of Al Qaeda, and the FSA (Free Syria Army) which has ties to ISIS. These are the main groups fighting Assad, and, as they're all now Islamist terrorist groups, they've lost any shred of legitimacy they may have originally had in their struggle against Assad.

We have mainly been supporting the Kurds.

The Kurds are not terrorists.


HabibUrrehman wrote:
So yes, the Western World (not just America) is responsible in part for creating ISIS, directly and indirectly.

That is incorrect. The responsibility for creating Islamic State lies entirely with Bashar al-Assad.


HabibUrrehman wrote:
decent-enough leaders like Gaddafi, Saddam, Assad and the Shah of Iran,

There was nothing even remotely decent about Kadaffy. There is nothing even remotely decent about Bashar al-Assad.
HabibUrrehman
 
  2  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 07:52 am
@oralloy,
US has no right to interfere in the matters of other countries. Many people dislike Trump and he has threatened to attack several countries in his 3 years as president. Does this gives license to Russia or any other country to invade USA? It does not. So why should USA invade other countries? Let people of those countries deal with their own problems.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 09:52 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Does Iran have the right to interfere in the affairs of Lebanon ?
HabibUrrehman
 
  2  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 09:58 am
@georgeob1,
You are missing my point. How many wars Iran is involved in recent years? Compare that to US and you will see what I mean.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 10:35 am
@HabibUrrehman,
I didn't miss your point at all. You stated categorically that the United States has "no right" to interfere in the affairds of other countries. Presumably that is a general statement involving all countries and all matters. I pointed out an obvious case involving such an intervention involving an avowedly Muslim country. Instead of recognizing your contradiction you merely dismissed the evidence.

Wars are also interventions, and nations have engaged in wars throughout
history. Some wars are reasonably just and accepted as such by historians, Others not. Do you believe the Islamic conquests of the 8th through the 10th centuries were justified?

I believe our intervention in Afghanistan was entirely justified by the 9/11 attack. However in retrospect we should have simply destroyed the Taliban and got out, leaving Afghanistan to the chaos it has known throughout its history. I believe the 2nd Iraqi war against Saddam was an error (in that, though his intentions were hostile, his abilities to carry them out were very limited)and was, in addition, badly executed by us from a governance perspective.

How do you rationalize the Islamist terror organizations of the Middle East and Africa. Are they justified in their kidnappings and murders?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 10:44 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Are they justified in their kidnappings and murders?

Terror is sanctioned by the doctrine of Islam, so are all forms of it including murder and kidnapping. That is the justification. Islam says so. Anything else is a lie.
HabibUrrehman
 
  3  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 11:23 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I believe our intervention in Afghanistan was entirely justified by the 9/11 attack.


I including many sensible Americans disagree with that. 9/11 was an insider job. Look up in you tube a documentary about 50 unanswered questions about 9/11.
HabibUrrehman
 
  3  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 11:24 am
@coldjoint,
You need to read your bible first before pointing fingers on others.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 11:28 am
@HabibUrrehman,
You could well do with some of the same or equivalent,
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Thu 20 Jun, 2019 11:36 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
You need to read your bible

This is not about the Bible. This is about Islam, what it says and what it teaches.
That is an apologist 101 deflection.
 

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