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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jul, 2003 10:20 am
Sweet
If they are unable to staff the services that would be the next logical step.
0 Replies
 
sweetcomplication
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jul, 2003 10:24 am
mmmmmm, good doggie!!!

let's choose chatroom names and i.d.'s and continuously interject "totally" and "man" and "cool" and "dude" etc and hit them with both barrels blazing, so to speak, e.g.


totallyhotbabe: oh, downer, dudes, just found out the Bush has promised to draft you guys once he's got a 2nd term nailed, bummer, man


(I think I need generation-to-generation lessons, but you actually have a fabulous idea; doesn't rise to the level of Tricky's ... but, I think that's a good thing!)

P.S. au, I hear ya', man Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jul, 2003 10:25 am
ya gotta get the "text messaging" style down as well:

r u kiddn?

noway

way struth
0 Replies
 
sweetcomplication
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jul, 2003 10:28 am
Yes, nice doggie, I am definitely not a chatter either! Could doggie be persuaded with some nice milkbones or other treats to come teach sweetie how to go about our task; come here, come here, that's a good puppy ... :wink:
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2003 10:00 am
From the file of What's Happening Now in relation to recently stated lack of necessity for unions in America. Happy shopping at Fred's.

From a news release for UNITE:

Workers at the Fred's distribution center voted overwhelmingly for a union with the Union of Needletrades, Industrial and Textile Employees (UNITE) in May, 2002 to improve dangerous, unjust working conditions. Fred's management responded with harsh retaliation, including illegal terminations and discipline. Although all 17 of Fred's objections to the vote were overturned by the NLRB at a hearing last year, Fred's continues to appeal the decision.

Fred's refused to allow TOSHA to inspect its distribution center in February, forcing TOSHA to obtain a warrant from the Chancery Court in Memphis.

"Fred's does not respect the law of Tennessee or the safety of its employees," declared Brad Rayson, Director of UNITE's Kentucky-Tennessee District. "Fred's has flouted the law through these life-threatening safety violations, through its refusal to allow the TOSHA inspection, and in the illegal harassment and termination of Greg Staples."

TOSHA cited Fred's for:
* Fire safety hazards, including locked, blocked and unmarked fire
exit doors.
* Failure to train and certify forklift operators.
* Obstructed, hazardous aisles.
* Hazardous electrical equipment "likely to cause death or serious
harm to employees."

====
Do think there is a way for individual workers to remedy these violations without the help of the Tennessee Occupational Safety and Health Adminstration (TOSHA) or a union?

Joe
0 Replies
 
sweetcomplication
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2003 10:03 am
Well, I certainly don't - why don't people 'get' it, Joe? BTW, thanks for the post!
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2003 10:13 am
Well -- solidarity via college fraternities is okay; non-profits set up for social services and to fund arts organizations are okay; political parties are okay; the AMA is okay; the lobbying organizations for insurance and drug companies are just fine; the support group for parents with hemophiliac children is great. But no, unions aren't okay because they tend to make our material world a little uncomfortable now and then. And they are SO much more powerful than the forces of capitalism, aren't they... !
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sweetcomplication
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2003 11:26 am
Tartarin, have you read this? What do you think? Thank you...

Kerry and Dean Set on a Collision Course:
Pointed Toward Same Democratic Destination,
They're Also Vying for Same Voters


By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2003; Page A04


HOPKINTON, N.H. -- They have circled one another warily for months, a study in political contrasts. One is the tall, cool Bostonian who exudes stature and experience in the world; the other the short, intense Vermont transplant who projects energy, passion and a determination to upend the politics of his own party.
Now Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) and former Vermont governor Howard Dean are on a collision course in their bids for the Democratic presidential nomination. They skirmished briefly in the spring over patriotism, courage and the qualities required of a commander in chief in an age of terrorism. With Dean's sudden emergence, a decisive clash appears inevitable, one that will have a significant impact on the outcome of the Democratic race.
Along with Rep. Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.), Kerry and Dean make up the top tier of the Democratic field of nine candidates, but by dint of geography and demography, the two New Englanders often find themselves fishing in the same pond, fighting over the same voters: white, liberal, moderately affluent, well-educated, mostly antiwar, vehemently anti-President Bush.
These prospective Democratic voters find themselves in a head-vs.-heart debate over whether to support Kerry or Dean. In Kerry, they see someone with the credentials to be president, but they worry about his passion and ability to excite an electorate. In Dean, they see the opposite, a blunt and inspirational politician willing to challenge Bush, but they wonder whether someone with his experience and views can win.
Tony Keefer is one of those conflicted voters. He slapped a "Dean for President" sign on his bicycle the other day and rode it in the Independence Day parade in Ashland, N.H. When more than 200 people gathered for a Dean appearance here in Hopkinton on a lovely New England evening on Thursday, Keefer was among them.
But he said he wasn't ready to make a commitment. "I'm for someone I'm convinced can beat Bush, and I'm not there yet with Dean, nor with Kerry," he said.
"Experience is very important," Keefer added. "Dean has used, quite ineffectively in my opinion, that he wants to make the U.S. Vermont, to do things for the U.S. that he did for Vermont. I find it very specious. Kerry on the other hand has not come across with a dynamic enough approach to turn the heads of people like myself, who were [Sen. John] McCain voters. . . . The guy who can get it can really give Bush a run for the money."
Neither Dean nor Kerry likes to admit how much each stands in the other's path to the nomination, although the regular potshots between their staffs prove that reality. Dean said there are no hard feelings between the men, although their earlier engagement suggested there is hostility coupled with annoyance.
"There's certainly no animosity -- certainly on my side," Dean said last week between fundraising calls at his Burlington, Vt., office.
Kerry, asked about Dean during an interview at The Washington Post on Thursday, refused to be drawn into a discussion about how the Dean insurgency has affected his own candidacy.
Here in New Hampshire, for now at least, the race is a two-man, neighbor-to-neighbor contest, with all the other candidates hoping to profit from the fallout of the expected Dean-Kerry showdown in the fall. In Iowa, Dean and Kerry, looking for an advantage that could help them in New Hampshire, are pressing Gephardt, the favorite there and a candidate appealing directly to the party's blue-collar constituency.
But as they campaigned through New Hampshire last week, it was clear how much they are paying attention to one another.
When Kerry, who last fall voted to give Bush the power to go to war in Iraq, suddenly scheduled a news conference Thursday morning to denounce the administration's postwar policy there, Dean, who opposed the war, laid on a news conference of his own to challenge the administration over misleading the public on the war.
As Dean tried to tone down some of the anger that has marked his rise in the Democratic race, Kerry repeatedly told audiences how angry he was: with Bush's foreign policy, tax cuts and energy policy. And as Dean has begun to mobilize an Internet-organized cadre of supporters and donors around the country, Kerry promised audiences to do the same.
Standing in the American Legion hall in Nashua, N.H., on Wednesday night, Kerry declared, "I'm going to build the greatest grass-roots effort we've ever had in this country in years, and we are going to go out and take back our own democracy."
Dean argues that only he can create that grass-roots following and that he has the only strategy to defeat Bush. "I'm the only one who can bring in legions of disaffected voters. None of the other Democrats can," Dean said in an interview. He said of his opponents: "Their strategy is: 'Let's go to the middle, and the base will follow.' My strategy is: 'Let's get the base energized, and then the independents will follow.' . . . I don't believe Bush can be beaten by doing what we did in 2000."
Whether he can attract independents or moderates is a principal challenge for Dean, given the angry, antiwar rhetoric that has fueled his support. The former governor says that he is not as liberal as he has been portrayed, given his pro-gun and pro-balanced budget views, but other Democrats question whether he can easily move himself toward the center without demoralizing the supporters who have signed on to his campaign.
It doesn't take long to see how much the two candidates are competing with one another for votes. Go to a Dean rally or a Kerry rally, and those in attendance almost universally say the choice is between the two, with occasional interest in one of the others in the Democratic field. "That's all I hear my friends talking about," said Sally Helms, a New Hampshire Democrat who attended a Kerry house party in Concord, N.H., last Tuesday.
Among others there were Paul Hodes, a Concord lawyer, and his wife, Peggo Hartsmann Hodes, a voice teacher in Concord. "I really appreciate that Howard Dean is pushing the envelope and he's pushing the Democratic Party hard," Paul Hodes said. But after supporting Bill Bradley in 2000, he said, "I can't afford to be led only by my heart. I've got to be practical."
He is supporting Kerry. His wife said she sees admirable qualities in Kerry, but she was actively against going to war in Iraq and grilled Kerry about his vote. After he finished, she said she leaned toward Dean because she wanted his ideas to have an impact on the Democratic Party. "In New Hampshire," she said, "you can have an impact on the dialogue. I can support an underdog candidate."
Marian Welton of Nashua came to hear Kerry on Wednesday night, another undecided Democrat looking mostly at Dean and Kerry. She said at this point Kerry looks more like a winner, but that Dean's candor reminded her of Arizona's McCain (R), who won the GOP primary here four years ago, and she regarded that as a plus.
How will she make up her mind in the Kerry-Dean sweepstakes? "When one or the other shows more promise in being able to beat Bush," she replied.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48741-2003Jul12.html?referrer=emailarticle
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2003 12:52 pm
Tom Oliphant wrote a nice piece about Kerry in today's Globe (Blatham provided a link in another forum). Have to admit I didn't care for Kerry's persona in that article, though it wasn't particularly critical. We may have to settle for Kerry (I hope not) but Dean and a couple of others are lifting the standards in the campaign and the issues.
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Mapleleaf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2003 08:19 pm
Sometimes, I think of Jimmy Carter, who satisfied the voters need for a change. With all his goodness, he couldn't run the Federal government from his office, like he did in Georgia. With that in mind, I would tend to come down on the side of experience.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:21 pm
au1929 wrote:
Do you continue to have questions regarding unions? Do you still believe they are antiques from a bygone era and no longer needed?

Yes, I continue to have questions regarding unions. Yes I still believe they are antiques from a bygone era and are no longer needed.

I also wrote that I know that there are others here who might be able to offer me valid reasons to question the conclusion I have reached. Perhaps you can offer a few without hurling insults at me (which Kuvasz seems to think is the best way to get me to listen with an open mind). Confused
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 02:29 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
From the file of What's Happening Now in relation to recently stated lack of necessity for unions in America. Happy shopping at Fred's.

Joe - Other than commenting on the situation, what exactly did UNITE have to do with this? Didn't TOSHA deal with the situation? Wasn't it TOSHA who inspected and cited the safety problems? How does the existence of or absence of a union change this story in any way? You seem to be arguing that UNIONS are needed, and to prove it you offer a story showing how important it is to have GOVERNMENT set and enforce workplace safety guidelines. My point in this discussion has been that government now routinely does those things unions fought to achieve for workers.
0 Replies
 
Mapleleaf
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 05:55 pm
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/comics/updating/cagle00.gif

I saw this and I thought of C.I.. By the way, have I done something illegal by posting this cartoon?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 06:37 pm
Scrat
I was under the impression that you would understand, from all that was written, the necessity of unions. Apparently I was wrong. I doubt that anything more than I could say would be anything more than a waste of effort. I will add one thing though the contention that "
Quote:
My point in this discussion has been that government now routinely does those things unions fought to achieve for workers"
is total false. The government mandates a minimum wage, 40 hour work week and overtime after 8 hrs a day. At times they will investigate a complaint regarding working conditions but as an individual you stand as much chance of getting action as a snowball surviving in hell.
On the other hand The union negotiates for salary, fringe benefits, work rules, seniority rights, grievances and etc..
If you are content to work for a minimum wage and a 40 hour work week the government has made the union supreflous. If not the union is a necessary evil. I should add you should be thankful, to unions for the wage and benefits you are now enjoying.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2003 08:00 pm
Scrat wrote:
au1929 wrote:
Do you continue to have questions regarding unions? Do you still believe they are antiques from a bygone era and no longer needed?

Yes, I continue to have questions regarding unions. Yes I still believe they are antiques from a bygone era and are no longer needed.

I also wrote that I know that there are others here who might be able to offer me valid reasons to question the conclusion I have reached. Perhaps you can offer a few without hurling insults at me (which Kuvasz seems to think is the best way to get me to listen with an open mind). Confused


Okay, apologies for not thinking you have an open mind, you have. Unfortunately, it appears one into which has been strewn much garbage.

You insist that my attempts to get you to tell me how you got to Rome is not as important as finding you there, even if you are not actually in Rome.

How strange, but so be it.

Your continuing position on unions is as you state, that you "still believe they are antiques from a bygone era and are no longer needed."

What evidence has led to that conclusion? Can you state details, events, and actual damage done to the nation far and above worse than were there no unions?

If unions are no longer needed, then the fundamental reason for them no longer exists. What was the reason labor organized?

What has occurred that has fulfilled labor's goals?

That's all you need to answer.

I don't particularly like broccoli myself, but I know why. It's because I don't like the taste, but you don't seem to be able to find voice, with cogently thought out, supportable arguments as to why you think unions are now useless.

Restating your position 3 times now, and yet having them volleyed back at you, as unsupported and without evidence, I would have considered you capable of getting in gear and respond with more than crocodile tears about me being the Spanish Inquisition.

Believe me, I'm not, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

http://home.mindspring.com/~fcalaja/_uimages/spain.gif
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2003 10:57 am
Joe Lieberman is in big trouble in the African American community.

Five days after a tense meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus, Lieberman Monday was branded a candidate with "no legitimacy" in the black community by NAACP President Kweisi Mfume.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2003 11:15 am
dyslexia wrote:
Joe Lieberman is in big trouble in the African American community.

Five days after a tense meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus, Lieberman Monday was branded a candidate with "no legitimacy" in the black community by NAACP President Kweisi Mfume.



Mfume was referring to Four invited "no-shows" - Bush, Lieberman, Gephardt and Kucinich who did not attend the NAACP convention, even though they all had 4 months notice, and even though the schedule had been changed to accomodate everyone. I thought he made a reasonable point about a certain blok of voters always being expected to do certain things, regardless of the consideration they are afforded leading up to the election.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-07-14-naacp_x.htm
0 Replies
 
sweetcomplication
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2003 11:20 am
The only no-show who really surprised me was Kucinich; usually, he's so progressive...
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2003 11:22 am
kuvasz wrote:
Okay, apologies for not thinking you have an open mind, you have. Unfortunately, it appears one into which has been strewn much garbage.

Gee, and for a moment there, I thought we were going to have a friendly exchange of ideas. Silly ol' me!
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2003 11:23 am
dyslexia wrote:
Joe Lieberman is in big trouble in the African American community.

Five days after a tense meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus, Lieberman Monday was branded a candidate with "no legitimacy" in the black community by NAACP President Kweisi Mfume.

That's only a problem for Lieberman if blacks lack the ability to act as individuals and think and choose for themselves.
0 Replies
 
 

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