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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 12:01 pm
Carter was a dark horse, Clinton was a dark horse--both of these exampels offered in the context of what the pundits were saying before the primaries. Dean's a governor, and they traditionally do well, so i'll be willing to hope the best for him.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 12:02 pm
While I javent decided whom to support yet,I find it hard to take seriously any party that has Al Sharpton as a candidate,no matter how fringe he might be.
Although he does put the Dems in an interesting position.
Dems claim to be all for minorities and support most if not all programs and ideas for "social equality",so if they dont support Sharpton,that would seem to be in contradiction of their own stated ideals.
If they do support him,that ruins any credibility the party might have left.
This will be fun to watch.
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mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 12:16 pm
You may be misreading Sharpton's role, mm. While he is not my first choice for Morality King, he is conceded to be a knowledgeable and experienced person - also, a survivor.

I strongly doubt even he thinks he'd be a viable candidate - but he is performing other roles. Look, he's making you take notice.

And in the interest of bipartisanship - the repubs have had Gingrich flying around the country trying to promote privatization of Medicare. Now there's a person without ethics, morals, grace, and some records to prove it. Supporting Gingrich seems to be a contradiction for those whose stated ideals are family virtues, ethical behavior, true belief. Any party who supports and backs a person like that is suspect.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 12:27 pm
Mama,I agree 100%,except you have overlooked the fact that Newt is NOT running for president.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 02:19 pm
Each declared Democratic candidate goes into campaigning with a different point of view -- different from the administration, different from each other. The money they raise, the interest shown in each not only indicates who is the most powerful candidate but tests a wide range of policies before a large number of voters. The platform comes out of that.

The fact that Bush goes into the election without a contest from someone within his party handicaps him and the party. It scoots past divisions within the party which will catch up with him later if he's elected, and it takes away the opportunity for his party to test policies before the actual election.

I think the only way Bush can win the election (at a 52% approval rating) is to buy it and/or manipulate the outcome. If he does that, he will find himself backstopped during his second term by Congress and by the states. There will be every reason for Congressional Dems to take their gloves off; and the Republicans who increasingly oppose him now will have no reason not to do the same.

As for Sharpton (and other "clear no-winners"), they do a real service by offering what amounts to a series of issues forums -- valuable to the voter, valuable to their fellow candidates.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 06:44 am
NYTimes editorial, 6/11/03

Quote:

Read My Lips
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Democrats have been groping for a way to counter George Bush's maniacal tax cuts, which are designed to shrink government and shift as many things as possible to the market. May I make a suggestion? When you shrink government, what you do, over time, is shrink the services provided by federal, state and local governments to the vast American middle class. I would suggest that henceforth Democrats simply ask voters to substitute the word "services" for the word "taxes" every time they hear President Bush speak.

That is, when the president says he wants yet another round of reckless "tax cuts," which will shift huge burdens to our children, Democrats should simply refer to them as "service cuts," because that is the only way these tax cuts will be paid for ?- by cuts in services. Indeed, the Democrats' bumper sticker in 2004 should be: "Read my lips, no new services. Thank you, President Bush."

Say it with me now: "Read my lips, no new services ?- or old ones."

Whenever Mr. Bush says, "It's not the government's money, it's your money," Democrats should point out that what he is really saying is, "It's not the government's services, it's your services" ?- and thanks to the Bush tax cuts, soon you'll be paying for many of them yourself.

As the former Nixon-era commerce secretary Peter Peterson just observed in this newspaper, when Mr. Bush took office the 10-year budget projection showed a $5.6 trillion surplus ?- something that would easily prefinance the cost of Social Security. The first Bush tax cut, coupled with continued spending growth and the post-9/11 costs, brought the projected surplus down to $1 trillion. "Unfazed by this turnaround," notes Mr. Peterson, "the Bush administration proposed a second tax-cut package in 2003 in the face of huge new fiscal demands, including a war in Iraq and an urgent `homeland security' agenda." Result: now the 10-year fiscal projection is for a $4 trillion deficit.

This in turn will shrink the federal government's ability to help out the already strapped states. Since most states have to run balanced budgets, that will mean less health care and kindergarten for children and the poor, higher state college tuition, smaller local school budgets and fewer state service workers. And Lord only knows how we'll finance Social Security.

Everyone wants taxes to be cut, but no one wants services to be cut, which is why Democrats have to reframe the debate ?- and show President Bush for what he really is: a man who is not putting money into your pocket, but who is removing government services and safety nets from your life.

Ditto on foreign policy. As we and our government continue to spend and invest more than we save, we will become even more dependent on the outside world to finance the gap. Foreigners will have to buy even more of our T-bills and other assets. And do you know on whom we'll be most dependent for that? China and Japan. Yes, that China ?- the one the Bush team says is our biggest geopolitical rival.

"In the 1990's, Japan's and China's excess savings were financing our private sector investment, because the government was in surplus," says Robert Hormats, vice chairman of Goldman Sachs International. "Now, with these looming deficits, China and Japan are being asked to finance our government's actual operations." That makes us very dependent on their willingness to continue sending us hundreds of billions of dollars of their savings. Should China and Japan not want to play along, your services will very likely be cut even sooner (unless you believe in "voodoo economics"). Which is why Democrats should rename this tax bill the China-Japan Economic Dependency Act.

I don't think Democrats can win the presidency with a single issue. You win the presidency by connecting with the American people's gut insecurities and aspirations. You win with a concept. The concept I'd argue for is "neoliberalism." More Americans today are natural neolibs, than neocons. Neoliberals believe in a muscular foreign policy and a credible defense budget, but also a prudent fiscal policy that balances taxes, deficit reduction and government services.

To name something is to own it. And the Democrats, for too long, have allowed the Bush team to name its radical reduction in services, and the huge dependence it is creating on foreign capital, as an innocuous "tax cut." Balderdash. This new tax cut is a dangerous foray into wretched excess and it will ultimately make our government, ourselves and our children less secure.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 07:35 am
Tartarin wrote:

That is, when the president says he wants yet another round of reckless "tax cuts," which will shift huge burdens to our children, Democrats should simply refer to them as "service cuts," because that is the only way these tax cuts will be paid for ?- by cuts in services. Indeed, the Democrats' bumper sticker in 2004 should be: "Read my lips, no new services. Thank you, President Bush."

...

Whenever Mr. Bush says, "It's not the government's money, it's your money," Democrats should point out that what he is really saying is, "It's not the government's services, it's your services" ?- and thanks to the Bush tax cuts, soon you'll be paying for many of them yourself.

...

This in turn will shrink the federal government's ability to help out the already strapped states. Since most states have to run balanced budgets, that will mean less health care and kindergarten for children and the poor, higher state college tuition, smaller local school budgets and fewer state service workers. And Lord only knows how we'll finance Social Security.

Everyone wants taxes to be cut, but no one wants services to be cut, which is why Democrats have to reframe the debate ?- and show President Bush for what he really is: a man who is not putting money into your pocket, but who is removing government services and safety nets from your life.


Interesting piece from Freidman but IMO, the story won't hold water with the general public and would be a bad choice of messages for the Democrats as things are right now.

For it to work, the Democrats that are holding office would have to be able to show that they are actually doing something to protect the essential services while eliminating many of the pork programs that the general public has become disgusted with. So far the Democrats in the Congress have continued those programs and in many cases added to the bloat in those programs. (And when I say "programs" I'm referring to things like Farm Subsidies, the Pentagon budget, Airline bail outs, etc..).

If those Democrats currently in the Congress don't reverse the trend then it would quickly be pointed out that while saying that "services are being cut" the same Democrats are approving and adding to the bloat in other programs. I would think that would just reaffirm the general feeling that politicans are two-faced hypocrits instead of rallying people to the Democratic Party's side of the political debate.

Freidmen is only half right when he says "Everyone wants taxes to be cut, but no one wants services to be cut..". Yes, everyone wants taxes cut but people also want the bloat taken out of government and the general public is, IMO, willing to see some programs reduced or eliminated.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 07:38 am
so are you saying its the Dem's that provide the pork barrel funding?
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 07:40 am
dyslexia wrote:
so are you saying its the Dem's that provide the pork barrel funding?


I'm saying every single person that sits in the Congress adds to the pork. But you can't say "They're cutting services!" (i.e. pointing fingers at the 'other" party..) and then add your own pork into the mix and not expect anyone to notice.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 07:42 am
I agree with much of what you say, Fishin', though of course the effectiveness of the message depends on the details. The disagreement lies in what "bloat" consists of. For example, I'd like to dismantle the Defense Department bloat by bloat and completely recast it according to the current needs of the US (vs the greeds of the defense industry). It would be worthwhile taking Friedman's thesis and parsing it, just as you've started to do. Get into those devilish details.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 07:46 am
for every silly and inane spending bill that gets funded is 10 x as much for the Pentagon
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sweetcomplication
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 11:59 am
Dys, thank you! I knew there was a connection, but I appreciate learning the exact formula, ie "aop (all other programs) X 10 = Pentagon appropriation". But, you know, we must keep that up in case we break out another war, I mean, in case another war breaks out; besides, how else do you pay for hammers and officer perks? :wink:
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 06:00 pm
tartarin

Thank you very kindly.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 06:00 pm
I met an oxymoron once............wait, I think I've spotted him around here recently........:-)
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 06:00 pm
How to stop America?

Quote:
...Now is the time to turn our campaigns against the war-mongering, wealth-concentrating, planet-consuming world order into a concerted campaign for global democracy. We must become the Chartists and the Suffragettes of the 21st Century. They understood that to change the world you must propose as well as oppose. They democratized the nation; now we must seek to democratize the world. Our task is not to overthrow globalization, but to capture it, and to use it as a vehicle for humanity's first global democratic revolution.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0612-05.htm
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 06:00 pm
Lola wrote:
Scrat, as long as the "few" are truly elected officials and not figure heads placed in office by another "few"...........really, it's a very important distinction.

Lola, thank you for agreeing with me. Cool
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 06:00 pm
LOL!!

PDiddie, are you a member of MoveOn? Did you get the straw poll plus the news that the top three candidates are, among Dem activists, Kerry, Dean, and Kucinich? I must admit reading about Graham's daily log was what finally put me off when the news came out. Guess he's not doing too well politically. Guess, in his retirement, he's gonna have to rely on kindly souls who want to buy his CD??!
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 06:00 pm
A dismal sounding future, then.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 06:00 pm
right, Boss, but some of us have more dancing electrons than others.........it's a defining characteristic, I'd say. Yours are very brave, I repeat.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2003 06:00 pm
Setanta - As I understand the terms, "democracy" is a system whereby each citizen gets a vote, and "oligarchy" means "rule by the few".

Our system, wherein the citizens vote to elect a "few" who "rule", seems to me to be part democracy, part oligarchy.

Now, aside from simply taking another opportunity to be snide and insulting, do you actually disagree, and if so, can you make your case for why you think I am wrong?

Or do you just come here to "pick fights" (as you so eloquently put it a while back)?
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