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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 09:12 am
Joining in .... and leaving a long queue of loud protesters behind me!!!


Besides: if Heinrich Hans Heinz's mother, ehem, Henry John Heinz' mother, hadn't told her son all those German secrets to make a really good ketchup ... Laughing
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 02:49 pm
Meanwhile, Bush is inching back up in the polls that pit him against Kerry ...

The latest CBS/NYT, Quinnipiac and Democracy Corps polls all have Bush 3 points ahead of Kerry - and thats when Nader is left out of the equation. Newsweek still has them equal, while Zogby gives Kerry a lead of two points.

That means on average, this past ten-day period, Bush is ahead - for the first time since mid-January.
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 04:24 pm
Good evening...
It strikes me (a staunch Dem) that Mr Kerry shouldn't worry about Mr Bush's poll numbers at this point. He should spend his time between now and July (when the conventions will be held) connecting with the people in every region of the country. And, oh yes, raising money.
He shouldn't worry about the ads that Mr Bush is running. Nobody is listening right now.
The 9-11 hearings; the lack of progress in Iraq (with almost 600 US deaths and 3500 wounded), and various economic reports suggesting storm clouds on our horizon convince me that Mr Bush will have a busy summer without Mr Kerry getting too involved.
Obviousy, Mr Kerry will have to address these issues at some time.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 04:32 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
Good evening...
It strikes me (a staunch Dem) that Mr Kerry shouldn't worry about Mr Bush's poll numbers at this point. He should spend his time between now and July (when the conventions will be held) connecting with the people in every region of the country. And, oh yes, raising money.
He shouldn't worry about the ads that Mr Bush is running. Nobody is listening right now.
The 9-11 hearings; the lack of progress in Iraq (with almost 600 US deaths and 3500 wounded), and various economic reports suggesting storm clouds on our horizon convince me that Mr Bush will have a busy summer without Mr Kerry getting too involved.
Obviousy, Mr Kerry will have to address these issues at some time.

Good comments, RJB. Were I a Kerry supporter, I might hope for him to do as you suggest, and you're probably right that the ads are not going to get a lot of attention with all the other things that are going on right now. I suspect that the goal of the ads right now is to preach to the converted... to make sure that voters that are currently leaning towards Bush keep leaning that way.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 05:38 pm
The logic behind the ads, in as far as Ive seen commentors and people from the Bush campaign itself remark on it, is to get an early lead in defining Kerry. Kerry is still little known - most people by now know who he is, but little about him. So although Kerry has thus far enjoyed good favourability rates, they are "shallow" - based on a rather superficial first impression, that can still relatively easy be changed. The Bush people hope they can profit from this "softness" of Kerry's image and get an early, negative impression of him across, that Kerry will then later have to overcome.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 05:53 pm
Latest Fox poll (yes, I know) has Bush and Kerry equal at 44%. Add Nader to the mix and Bush leads 43% to 42%.

However. Pitting Bush and Cheney against Kerry and Edwards, the Democrats win 48% to 43%.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 05:56 pm
nimh wrote:
The logic behind the ads, in as far as Ive seen commentors and people from the Bush campaign itself remark on it, is to get an early lead in defining Kerry.


Thanks, I was going to type that yesterday but got called away and forgot to.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 06:01 pm
They probably ought to spend a little more on re-redefining the Bush. His image is a little tattered and soiled (not to mention, spoiled).
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 06:23 pm
Nothing all that much they can do about that. But they can make him seem like the best choice of the two by putting Kerry down - as in, "we know he's not perfect, but with so much at stake, do you really want to trust [whatever they will try to say about Kerry]?"

Thats why itll be a rough campaign ...
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 09:16 pm
Does anybody know of a source with consistant election polls?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 09:21 pm
www.pollingreport.com got them all ...
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 09:22 pm
Off the proverbial hizzle, homes.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 04:09 pm
And they're working ...

Craven de Kere wrote:
nimh wrote:
The logic behind the ads, in as far as Ive seen commentors and people from the Bush campaign itself remark on it, is to get an early lead in defining Kerry.

Thanks, I was going to type that yesterday but got called away and forgot to.


About those Bush ads, note the following:

Quote:
TODAY'S NUMBERS: So much for the theory that John Kerry would be better off on vacation than on the campaign trail. The two polls out today, one by Pew and one by Gallup, show that Bush's advertising blitz has had a far greater effect on the electorate than Richard Clarke's criticisms. While Clarke has dented Bush's approval rating on terrorism, Kerry has shown no movement on the issue, and, more importantly, Bush has eaten away at Kerry's approval ratings on every other topic of concern to voters.

In the Pew poll, Bush's rating on terrorism dropped four points, but there is no significant net change since Kerry himself dropped three points on the issue. On all the other issues tested the poll shows Kerry dropping and Bush gaining or remaining steady since Pew's last survey in mid-March. Kerry dropped eight points on handling the situation in Iraq; seven points on foreign policy; nine points on trade, the economy, and education; and eleven points on both the job situation and health care.

The Gallup poll shows that Bush's arguments about Kerry are having dramatic results. Here's USA Today's summary:

"TV ads are powerful. A majority echo the Bush ads' themes about the Massachusetts senator: 57% say Kerry has changed positions for political reasons, and 58% say their federal taxes will go up if he's elected. And the percentage who say he's ''too liberal'' has jumped from 29% in February to 41% now.."

Watching the White House take incoming from Clarke over the last nine days, some pundits have joked that Kerry's best strategy may be to just stay on vacation or schedule more surgery. But these two polls suggest that what Kerry really needs to be doing is forcefully rebutting charges that he is weak on defense and a tax-raising liberal. In the battle of Bush's TV ads versus Richard Clarke's accusations, score one for TV ads.

posted 10:34 a.m.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 04:39 pm
One thing I have learned over the last 4-6 years nimh is that polls aren't as reliable as we once believed. I don't know why, maybe they know their markets and results desired; therefore, biasing the randomness or some such. Anyways, the most reliable poll (and there is now evidence even this isn't accurate) occurs on November 2nd Exclamation
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 05:41 pm
Yeh yeh yeh. But even if their ultimate prediction is off 4% this way or that way - and it isnt usually much more, but who can fault a poll for predicting the wrong winner when the margin of victory turns out to be, like, 0,3% - then at least the ups and downs they register from month to month say something about the impact this or that aspect of the campaign has been registering. The campaigns themselves go by them, I'm sure, however much they will publicly deny it.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 05:44 pm
Too be true.... The thing that gets me is how easy it is to sway the electorate, especially with negative campaigning. To me, it is so easy to see through the whitewash, jeez.
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JoanneDorel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 08:59 pm
Isn't that the truth Bill - spin doctors have many listeners.

One way I have found to avoid spin is to listen to or watch C-span. And I like to listen to hearings broadcast live over the radio. I find I hear better without being distracted by appearance.

I will never forget the first debate in the last presidential. There was no TV available so I listened to it over NPR. What a shock the next day when I read that Gore lost because of his looks. It seemed to me that even the print journalists were only focused on the appearance not the subject matter.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 09:17 pm
Kerry's drop in the polls, IMO, coincided with the video of Kerry delivering that flesh-crawly statement, "I actually voted for it..., before I voted against it."

Some say O! Its the evil Rove/Republican Attack machine. I imagine the fact Kerry actually said that --not that Bush used it--is concerning alot of people.

I don't think Kerry did well by saying European leaders wanted him to be elected. You know, he already looks French... Cool

He needed some time off the campaign trail. He'd begun to make some costly mistakes.... the open mic thing, the other two I mentioned... It was a good call by his campaign. He needed some schooling. They're still neck and neck.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2004 12:49 am
Good point, Sofia. It's like this bit of the citation above:
Quote:
A majority echo the Bush ads' themes about the Massachusetts senator: 57% say Kerry has changed positions for political reasons, and 58% say their federal taxes will go up if he's elected. And the percentage who say he's ''too liberal'' has jumped from 29% in February to 41% now.."

Note that the article posits as fact the notion that people MUST HAVE come to these conclusions because of the Bush ads. NOBODY in America might have considered the facts and come to their own conclusions. The reality of Kerry couldn't just be catching up to Kerry, no... if people don't like a Democrat it's because of something a Republican did. Cool (Which possibility sits fine with me, but it is just one of many possibilities.)
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2004 12:58 am
Scrat wrote:
Good point, Sofia. It's like this bit of the citation above:
Quote:
A majority echo the Bush ads' themes about the Massachusetts senator: 57% say Kerry has changed positions for political reasons, and 58% say their federal taxes will go up if he's elected. And the percentage who say he's ''too liberal'' has jumped from 29% in February to 41% now.."

Note that the article posits as fact the notion that people MUST HAVE come to these conclusions because of the Bush ads. NOBODY in America might have considered the facts and come to their own conclusions. The reality of Kerry couldn't just be catching up to Kerry, no... if people don't like a Democrat it's because of something a Republican did. Cool (Which possibility sits fine with me, but it is just one of many possibilities.)


It is a rather uncanny coincidence, you have to admit.

The media profoundly effects how people percieve candidates. Kerry was riding high during the primaries at least in part because he had a virtual monopoly on media coverage. Now that Bush is biting back it is only natural that it will show up in the polls. Period.

This is hardly a revelation, Scrat.
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