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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 06:58 pm
Quote:
Could be, Soz, but I doubt it. The Bush Camp is thoroughly wrapped up in the National Guard thing, and I just don't see them finding advantage in thew Affair affair.
Oh, I suspect that with 170 million, and squadrons of little rovians, they might find the time.

We'll recall Ann Coulter's remark to Drudge, as he 'researched' the Monica affair, "Oh, there's lots of busy little elves working away."

Or, we could recall the Willy Horton campaign....or the "McCain has a chink daughter"...etc etc
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 08:29 pm
Well, Kerry has the RNC's nod for Democratic Candidate. Here's the first "Official" Bush-Cheney '04 Kerry hitpiece I'm aware of. It seems the folks there have been thinking outside the National Guard box, after all.

Quote:
http://www.georgewbush.com/images/headers/1.jpg
February 12, 2004 : Unprincipled, Chapter 1<--- Click on this link, then click on "View" for the Feb 12 item when the page opens


I understand this is just the beginning of a concerted internet-based campaign. I suspect that when the fight goes to national TV, "Shock and Awe" of the political sort will be the Republican gameplan. This does promise to be an interesting General Election season.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 08:43 pm
blatham wrote:
Or, we could recall the Willy Horton campaign....or the "McCain has a chink daughter"...etc etc


Yesss... Maybe it's just like those.

As a matter of fact is was your hero, Al Gore, that first brought Willie Horton to the American Public's attention during the 1988 primaries.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 08:57 pm
BrandX, that was from Drudge, right? It's an "off-the-record conversation", no independent corroboration. This is not something one can claim as fact.

Secondly, even if Clark did say it first, it could easily have been a rumor he heard from a professional rumor-monger.

I said this on the thread on the subject, but if Clark "knew" this, now would be the last time for him to quit. If he was starting something, just before he quit would be the last time to do it. If Kerry is out, that only helps him.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 08:58 pm
At any rate -- I don't doubt that Democrats are capable of mudslinging. I also really don't doubt that the Republicans are, and I doubt even less that they are looking for whatever they can to slow Kerry's momentum.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 01:15 am
The Affair affair gets curiouser and curiouser. I stumbled across this at
Watchblog
Quote:
February 06, 2004
Rumor: A Kerry Affair & Push Polling
Rumor has it that John Kerry (D) is going to be outed by Time Magazine next week for having an affair with a 20 year old woman who remains unknown. The affair supposedly took place intermittently right up to Kerry's Fall 2002 announcement of candidacy. At present, this is nothing more than a rumor; and after such sordid tactics as the "push polling" that took place in South Carolina in the 2000 elections, can such rumors be credible during campaign cycles? Could this create a Democratic backlash against Republicans for perceived scandalmongering?


Watchblog's owner is one Cameron Barret, who happens also to be the director of the Clark Community Network.

Now, with the possible exception of Jim Carville, Chris LeHane, who became Clark's campaign manager shortly after being fired from that position in Kerry's team is about the best dirty trickster the Dems have. It was LeHane who broke the October Surprise DUI story back in 2000. LeHane is nothing if not a Clintonista ... could this all be the start of a "Draft Hillary" gambit? Could it be simple bitterness on LeHane's part? It is rumored that Dean's decision to renege on his Wisconsin promise was predicated by his foreknowledge of an "Impending Kerry-Crushing Scandal". Could it be in fact a Democrat plant intended, as the blog article quoted above conjectures, to appear to have come from The Republicans, with the aim of creating an anti-Republican backlash? Whatever the answer, I just don't see it as a Republican plant; its way too early for that sort of thing. A cross-party revelation of this type typically breaks not more than a week or so prior to the general election, in order to minimize the victim's opportunity to address, explain, or rebut the allegations before crunch time. Never let your opponent have the time to minimize the damage of your bombshell. The whole point of scandal leaks is to place doubt and/or distaste in the minds of the voters at the critical time. Given that the Democrat's convention is yet months away, it just wouldn't be smart politics for the Republicans to fire their killshot now. Nor would it seem to make much sense for The Democrats to burn off their backlash gambit so long before its heat would affect the General Election. This is end-game stuff, not middle play, and the board hasn't really even developed an opening yet. Nope, I'm convinced this came from somewhere within the Democrat's apparatus, replete as it is with suitable personages set to derive, or at least to perceive, immediate gain. As is said in legal circles, "Qui Bono" ... Who Benefits. What we got here is a rumor, so far, and plenty of suspects but no clear logical motive. Yup, curiouser and curiouser.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 06:52 am
From Drudge:

Kerry is scheduled to appear on IMUS IN THE MORNING on Friday. Later he is scheduled to join General Wesley Clark, who, in an off-the-record conversation with a dozen reporters earlier this week, plainly stated: "Kerry will implode over an intern issue."

Reporters who witnessed Clark making the stunning comments marvel at the General's reluctance to later confirm they were spoken -- only to later endorse Kerry for the nomination!
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 07:27 am
fishin' wrote:
blatham wrote:
Or, we could recall the Willy Horton campaign....or the "McCain has a chink daughter"...etc etc


Yesss... Maybe it's just like those.

As a matter of fact is was your hero, Al Gore, that first brought Willie Horton to the American Public's attention during the 1988 primaries.


Oh, come on now. Though I admit a vital sexual attraction to Tipper (what a wildcat in bed, surely!), I've swear I would not arrive at some party wearing the same color of cumberbund as her husband.

We know what slime the Republican machine, particularly as directed by Rove, can spit out into the national discourse, and this Drudge chap's piece is too too typical for words.

Do you find some justification for what was done to Max Clelland and John McCain, fishin? Do you believe those two smear campaigns elevated your party, and the national discourse? Do you have contrasting examples from Democrats? (and I mean examples of EQUAL ugliness)

Could it not be more evident that this is not merely an attempt to slander by innuendo and suggestion, but also a handy means to try and redirect attention away from Bush's National Guard 'problem'? Christ, even now his administration is refusing to do what he told Russert he'd do - release all documents.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 09:33 am
blatham, I'm not denying The Republicans are good at dirty tricks and sleaze campaigning, nor do I excuse the Democrats from such. Both are great at it. It just strikes me as not the opportune time for a Republican snipe of this nature. Wesley's inexperience, Dean's anger, LeHane's own personal grudge, Hillary's machinations ... there are plenty of reasonable Democrat-based possibilities, but the timing on this just doesn't seem to play for the Republicans.
There's always the possibility I'm wrong, of course, but I really think the National Guard flap will quit fluttering of its own accord, leaving its proponents frustrated, if not seriously inconvenienced. I gotta say I've got my doubts as to the lasting power of The Affair affair, too.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 10:54 am
blatham wrote:
Could it not be more evident that this is not merely an attempt to slander by innuendo and suggestion, but also a handy means to try and redirect attention away from Bush's National Guard 'problem'? Christ, even now his administration is refusing to do what he told Russert he'd do - release all documents.


While anything is possible, what benefit is there for Bush's machine to smear Kerry at this point?

If (and that's a big if..) the story pans out to be true it could knock Kerry out of the race. Should that happen the Dems would simply select someone else and Bush would run against them.

If this story came from the Bush camp why wouldn't they hold onto it until after the Democratic convention when the entire party is united behind Kerry (assuming he wins the nod) and knock him out at that point? What does Bush gain by taking Kerry out now? If Kerry dropped and Edwards takes the nod does Bush have something even bigger to take him out later on (unlikely..)?

Historically the dirt that comes out prior to the conventions is dirt that is released by someone WITHIN the same party and there is NOTHING to suggest that this is any differnet other than people's paranoia over Bush.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 11:00 am
I can see it going either way -- I don't rule out either one. It seems equally likely, and equally "paranoid."

I can think of a lot of reasons for it coming up now from the Bush camp -- Kerry has enormous momentum, he's looking very good, now is the time to start tarnishing that image in quick and easy ways. I see this as quick and easy, it gets on Drudge, everyone sees it, lots of people believe it, in a while it turns out to be unfounded, oh well. But some damage is done, AND, can maybe even take some of the wind out of the sails of Clark's endorsement of Kerry. He's endorsing him, but (whisper whisper nudge nudge) he also is spreading dirt on him. What's up with that?

All based on rumor, mind you.

I don't see this as being THE weapon against Kerry. I see it as a little opening gambit.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 11:04 am
The University of Michigan's preliminary reading of consumer sentiment tumbled to 93.1 in February from January's final reading of 103.8, which was its highest level in over three years, according to market sources who saw the report.

That was way below economists' forecasts of 103.3 and confirmed market speculation the figure would be dramatically lower.

"It is kind of a stunner. A 10-point drop in the confidence index is significant and suggests there is a new pessimism among consumers that was not there a month ago," said Chris Low, chief economist, FTN Financial in New York.
"I suspect it has something to do with three surprisingly weak employment reports in a row," he added.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 01:44 pm
fishin (and timber)

The temptation to begin "Oh, for goodness sake" has bested me.

The gain, as I said, is redirection of attention from, primarily, the National Guard problem, but also as counter to the present Bush-negative media attention and drop in polls. Now is a fine time to begin the character attack (note Coulter's coincident slimey suggestions regarding Kerry as a man who just hunts down rich women - and if you are going to argue that she isn't part of the machine, then you really ought to put your head in a paint mixer to gain some shakitude).

Now, it's possible this isn't a Rove generated item, but IT IS IN CHARACTER for him. That Rove might be morally above such a smear would not be a credible claim (and like I said above...find me examples of equal yuck produced by Dems to that of McCain and Cleland).
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 01:56 pm
The biggest will be saved - Cheney was the whole cause for WMD and Iraq and Rice will be the VP plus bin Laden will be taken off 'ice' to be "captured" dead in October. For now, this is good to for a turn around when it is needed.......
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 02:32 pm
blatham wrote:
(and like I said above...find me examples of equal yuck produced by Dems to that of McCain and Cleland).


Well berine, I already provided you with one. Al Gore's bring up Willie Horton certianly qualifies. Of course there was also the Gore team's assertions that Nader was an Anti-semite or you could go back to the 1988 campaign and go to the rumours that were started about Hart's extra-maritial affairs which ended up sinking his campaign.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 03:27 pm
bernie, did you miss that the first appearance of The Affair affair was on the personal blog of Cameron Barrett, Wes Clark's Director of Communications? That was mentioned back here. Then again, perhaps its your supposition that The Whitehouse was the real force behind Clark's campaign. Nahhh. as far as I can determine, it appears The Dems have done this to themselves. Even to assume that else might be the case strains credulity. That dog just don't hunt, no matter how fond ya are of the critter.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 03:37 pm
One of Kerry's staff was on one of the Boston radio stations while I was driving home from work denying the charges and pinning the blame for the rumours on a Mr. Chris (Kris?) Lehane.

Supposedly he picked them up from a story that ran in the Boston Herald 4 years ago when this intern was reportedly spotted slipping into Kerry's Boston townhouse just after midnight.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 03:44 pm
Quote:
Posted on Fri, Feb. 13, 2004

AP
Sen. John Kerry and his wife, Teresa, had been married about five years when the alleged promiscuity began

Kerry sex scandal lurking?

Internet report cites suspicions

By WILLIAM BUNCH

[email protected]


Here we go again?

.......................

But there's one huge problem with the story, which raced through newsrooms across the country like a computer virus: Nobody has been able to confirm that it was true.

"This rumor has been out there for months and months," Neil Oxman, the prominent Democratic consultant based in Philadelphia, said last night. He said there were various versions, including several that had Kerry dating a young woman well before the 2000 election, when Al Gore looked at Kerry as a potential running mate.

Oxman said there's just no way to judge whether the story is really damaging to the Kerry campaign until any facts come out.

Even stranger, the Drudge item said that Wesley Clark, the retired general and former candidate, spread the rumor by telling a group of stunned reporters that "Kerry will implode over an intern issue." But then it was reported last night that Clark today will endorse Kerry - the decorated Vietnam War candidate who has captured 13 of 15 Democratic primaries and caucuses.

Indeed, other accounts last night said Clark was instead referring to Kerry's reportedly wild bachelor days between the breakup of his first marriage and his 1996 wedding to Teresa Heinz Kerry. Kerry reportedly dated actress Morgan Fairchild and other starlets.

Numerous fingers for the uproar were pointed last night at Clark's top aide, Chris Lehane, who was Gore's campaign press secretary in 2000. Washington insider Craig Crawford of Congressional Quarterly said in a widely circulated e-mail that Lehane had been "shopping" the story to reporters for a long time.

"The Kerry camp has long expected to deal with this, and have assured party leaders they can handle it," he said.

If the story were true, Kerry would have a harder time handling his wife, the widow of Pennsylvania Sen. John Heinz, who was killed in a 1991 midair collision in Lower Merion.

She told Elle magazine that she warned her first husband on the subject of adultery: "If you ever get something, I'll maim you. I won't kill you. I'll maim you."

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/7943785.htm
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 03:44 pm
When will those silly Democrats learn to keep it in their pants?
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2004 04:06 pm
Are there any Republicans out there that would like to sniff my zipper?
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