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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 02:30 pm
Oh, come on, all the politicians start the buttering up process about this time. Bush is no different -- shouldn't he be in Washington taking care of business? Ooops, I forgot. Cheney is there.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 02:31 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
Hey, she's drawing attention to the event. More power to her. Plus, just seeing her name in print seem to raise the blood pressure of the True Believers to dangerous levels...

The point is that she is drawing attention to HERSELF and away from the actual Democrat presidential hopefuls who need the attention. To me, this just shows how little Hillary cares for anyone or anything other than herself. Most of her party are unhappy about this, but she's doing it anyway, because "it's all about her".

Again, I'm practically giddy to see it, but I would not be happy were I a Democrat.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 02:33 pm
The media goes where they get the most for their buck -- an actor on the stage with no audience is just rehersing.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 02:36 pm
Well, I'm a Democrat, and I'm not worried about it. Sorry, Scrat...
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 02:42 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
The media goes where they get the most for their buck -- an actor on the stage with no audience is just rehersing.


Are you refering to Ahnuld?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 03:16 pm
McGentrix

For someone who supports murderer supremo to be calling Hillary evil is a hoot.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 03:34 pm
Well, Ahnold is a celebrity and has an audience -- the media has quieted down somewhat giving him exposure (well, not as much exposure as in "Terminator II") We'll soon know who is going to remain the butt (sic) of his poltical wrath -- even with Davis being a gracious loser, I'm sure Ahnold will continue to find blame for the condition of California. For the fifth largest economy, our infrastructure is pretty outdated and in ill repair. Just try driving through downtown L.A. on freeways that were obsolete thirty years ago.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 07:27 pm
Here's a listing of the 2004 primary schedule, courtesy of The Scrum:

January 13
District of Columbia

January 19
Iowa

January 27
New Hampshire

February 3 (Super Tuesday #1)
Arizona
Delaware
Missouri
New Mexico
North Dakota
South Carolina
Oklahoma

February 7
Michigan
Washington

February 8
Maine

February 10
Tennessee
Virginia

February 17
Wisconsin

February 24
Idaho

February 27
Utah

March 2 (Super Tuesday #2)
Minnesota
California
Connecticut
Georgia
Hawaii
Maryland
Massachusetts
Missouri
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island
Texas
Vermont

March 9
Florida
Louisiana
Mississippi

March 13
Kansas

March 14
Nevada*

March 16
Illinois

March 20
Wyoming

April 6
Wisconsin

April 13
Colorado

April 27
Pennsylvania

May 4
Indiana
North Carolina

May 11
Nebraska
West Virginia

May 18
Oregon
Arkansas
Kentucky

May 25
Idaho

May 27
Washington

June 1
Alabama
South Dakota

June 8
Montana
New Jersey

* NOTE: Both Alaska and Nevada will not hold 2004 primaries. Alaska's official primary will be held on August 24, which is after the Democratic Convention; the state party will hold caucuses to select delegates some time in the spring. In 2000, Nevada held its caucuses on March 12. If they stick to the same day of the week, their caucuses would be held on March 14, 2004.

PRIMARY CALENDAR NEWS
Kansas: In lieu of a primary, Dems will hold caucuses on March 13.
Colorado: After the legislature abandoned a primary, which would have been held on March 2, state Dems will hold caucuses on April 13.
Wyoming: In lieu of a primary, Dems will hold caucuses at county conventions set for March 20.
New Mexico: Dems eyeing February 3 date for caucuses.
Maine: Caucuses will be held on February 8.
Washington: Dems plan to hold caucus February 7.
Tennessee: Dem party head says February 10 primary being considered.
Michigan: Dems close to compromise that would set a February 7 caucus date.
Minnesota: GOP and Dems endorse plan for February caucuses.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 07:36 pm
risible quote of the day:

"I'm against making foreign-policy pronouncements in the middle of campaigning"

(when retracting his earlier statement that he would end the embargo on Cuba)

Wesley Clark
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 03:37 am
In his current signature Scrat wrote:
Sci: The Earth is round.
RNC: The US is flat.
Reps: How do we make a profit on a round Earth?
DNC: The Earth is flat. Only the government can save you from falling off.
Dems: Government, save us!

Imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery, isn't it? Thanks for the flattery, Scrat!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 07:47 am
Thomas,

Flatery perhaps. However Scrat added new twists to an otherwise rather one dimensional bit of mockery.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 11:27 am
There's no denying that foreign policy concerns, particularly as relate to Iraq and The War On Terror, give Bush difficulty, and Democrats hope, in The Opinion Poll War. However, there is no denying a tilt toward the Republican Party by The Electorate. Republicans, following the unprecedented '02 gains, now control both Legislative Houses, and in both have fewer at-risk seats going into '04, while having the advantage of incumbency in the majority of contests to be decided in the coming election. With Republican victories in three of this year's four gubernatorial contests, and a fourth GOP pickup, in Louisiana this weekend likely ( Jindal 10-Point Lead ), have decidedly tipped the balance of Statehouses in Republican favor since 2000. For the first time since the 1930s, more State Legislatures are in Republican control than Democrat, and again, in state legislatures, the Republicans have fewer at-risk seats going into '04 while enjoying the advantage of a majority of Republican governors. Nationwide, registered voters identifying themselves as Republicans now total 31%, with Democrats at 32%, a 7 point shift to the GOP since 2000. Pointedly, Republicans have made significant gains both in states that narrowly went to Gore in 2000 and in those which showed small Bush margins, while consolidating leads in states that were clearly in the Bush camp last time around. Republican gains have been spread across all demographics, with an 8% pickup of Hispanics, America's fastest growing minority. According to one major pollster, quoted in The Washington Times, "Republicans are in much better shape than they were four years ago," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center." A Democrat pollster, quoted in a lengthyCBS News article entitled "The Emerging Republican Majority", observes that
Quote:
"In terms of the percentage of voters who identify themselves as Democrats, the Democratic party is currently in its weakest position since the dawn of the New Deal."
Mark Penn, Democratic Pollster" ...

That article opines
Quote:
... Realignment is already here, and well advanced. In 1964, Barry Goldwater cracked the Democratic lock on the South. In 1968 and 1972, Republicans established a permanent advantage in presidential races. In the big bang of realignment, 1994, Republicans took the House and Senate and wiped out Democratic leads in governorships and state legislatures. Now, realignment has reached its entrenchment phase. Republicans are tightening their grip on Washington and erasing their weakness among women and Latinos. The gender gap now exposes Democratic weakness among men. Sure, an economic collapse or political shock could reverse these gains. But that's not likely

and concludes
Quote:
Nothing is guaranteed in politics. The political future is never a straight-line projection of the present. And the ascendant party always hits bumps in the road. Democrats were dominant from 1932 to 1994, but they lost major elections in 1938, 1946, and 1952. Now, Republicans are stronger than at any time in at least a half-century and probably since the 1920s. Realignment has already happened, and there's no reason to pretend otherwise.

A recent Harvard study showed also that nationwide, Republican sentiment among college students, traditionally a Democratic bloc, is now in the majority, interestigly, BTW, also revealing that a majority of college students are pro-life and see that issue as a key concern. It should be noted too that while the Democrats have been vigorously campaigning against Bush for over a year, the Republican campaign, with its immense warchest, has yet to begin, and will not fully ramp up untill a Democrat Presidential Candidate has been nominated. The apparent dominance of Dean among the feild of hopefuls, may bode ill for Demcrats, as a National Journal study quoted in The Mineapolis Star-Tribune observes
Quote:
Predictions vs. preferences

The National Journal has been taking a weekly survey of 50 Democratic insiders to ask who they consider most likely to win the party's presidential nomination. This week, for the third straight week, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean was a runaway winner, with 36 of the 50 insiders agreeing that he is the most likely nominee.

But the journal is also asking the insiders every week which Democratic challenger would have the best chance of defeating President Bush. On that basis, Dean falls almost to the bottom of the pack. Only four of the insiders said Dean would be the party's strongest candidate. The winner on that question was Rep. Dick Gephardt (16 of the insiders picked him), followed by retired Gen. Wesley Clark (nine) and Sen. John Kerry (five). Dean and Sens. Joe Lieberman and John Edwards were tied with four insiders picking each of them as the most likely to beat Bush.


There is much fervor among Democrat Activists currently, but little reason for Democrat optimism. While Bush and a "Generic Democrat" poll roughly equally, no announced Democrat candidate polls better than Bush head-to-head. Republican gains over the past few years cannot be ignored or wished away. The future is a matter of conjecture, but the ddds, as demonstrated by clearly evident and well established trend momentum, mitigate against Democrat success. One might conclude the greatest challenge facing Democrats today are Democrats themselves.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 11:48 am
Anyone remember the stats on how Bush 1 was doing in the polls vs. his Dem challengers in 1991?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 12:48 pm
Yeah, at this relative point, Bush 1 was ahead of his opponents. At that time, the Democrats were in control of a majority of statehouses, state legislatures, and both Houses of Congress as well as being the party-of-stated-affilliation of a clear majority of registered voters. Note, too, that at this relative point in their first terms, both Nixon and Reagan were running behind their challengers.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 02:36 pm
Thomas wrote:
In his current signature Scrat wrote:
Sci: The Earth is round.
RNC: The US is flat.
Reps: How do we make a profit on a round Earth?
DNC: The Earth is flat. Only the government can save you from falling off.
Dems: Government, save us!

Imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery, isn't it? Thanks for the flattery, Scrat!

Thomas - I saw an opportunity for a little light-hearted humor, and I took it. Glad you liked it, but if anyone should be flattered, it's Krugman. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 02:45 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Flattery perhaps. However Scrat added new twists to an otherwise rather one dimensional bit of mockery.

Yes, Krugman's attempt at humor was like all of his writing; long on bias and short on substance. In my take, I at least tried to take a humorous shot at BOTH SIDES of the political spectrum (Republicans only see the world as a place to make a buck and Democrats only see the world as a problem they need government to solve.)

Which I think is another difference between most conservatives and most liberals. I see conservatives poke fun at themselves all the time; liberals only seem interested in lampooning others, never themselves.

Question (Am I wrong about this? I may well only see it that way because of my personal bias. Having written it, I wonder whether there's any truth to it, or it's just my skewed perception of reality.) Question
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 02:50 pm
I vote for personal bias. Sounds just like those on the other side who wish to make similarly sweeping assertions.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 04:22 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
I vote for personal bias. Sounds just like those on the other side who wish to make similarly sweeping assertions.

You may be right, though its hard not to assume you are just taking a contrary position to anything I write these days. Can you offer any evidence that I'm wrong... know of any cases of self-effacing humor on the left to which you can point? I believe I can point to plenty on the right.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 04:39 pm
Scrat,

Before I give you one (or several) examples of self-depreciating humor on the left would do do me a favor and make the effort meaningful by first asserting that there are no such examples? Otherwise it would be largely meaningless.

I am not saying that to be contrary to you, I am saying that because it's all too common in politics for people to make such assertions.

Blatham kept telling me that the right's standards in discourse were much lower than the left and that their arguments were rhetorical while the left is factual.

I told him that it was just about the stupidest thing I'd ever heard (as it was entirely rhetorical and not substantiated by fact) and that sentiment I apply to both sides when they get carried away with how good they are.

But if you really think one example of said humor is needed then here ya go:

Quote:
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.
Will Rogers


Now it does not prove anything, you forwarded a generalization, and unless you think it is absolute then one example is, indeed, meaningless. Upon giving you a few examples you could assert that a few "exceptions" don't disprove the "rule". So then we'd be talking a new kettle of fish, you might try to assert that while the left has had a few atypical moments of said humor they frequent that comedic ground far less than the right.

And then I'm stuck with counting an awful lot of jokes. Which is in the same position you should be in if making this assertion.

There's plenty out there, asserting something so bold as a general difference in the taste in humor of such large groups is simply not something I think you can even begin to support.

This is something that frustrates me about politics, people really believe these types of things when they say them.

"Democrats want to give fish and we want to teach people to fish".

"Republicans are all about staying rich and keeping the poor poor"

What these statements do is first assume that one's opinion in a complex matter like sociology is right, and then seek to make a pithy statement that is somehow supposed to validate this self-endowed rightness.

I reject these proposed axioms almost every time I see them. It's not because you said it and not because of your politics. I simply think that what you assert is as difficult to prove and perhaps as wrong as "blondes are dumb".

When you threw in the doubt about how your personal perspective might have more to do with what you said than the general reality of the political groups I think you were on to something.

Humor is such an abstract construct of ours that these discussions are sometimes meaningless (try to prove that one guy is funnier than another sometime). I find it more likely that you did not find some humor funny, or that some humor was more striking in your memory than that the sweeping generalization you forwarded is bourne out in reality.

Edit: I just remember that nimh was doing some of that kind of humor yesterday or the day before that you might not have seen.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 06:03 pm
Ver-r-r-r-y int-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g (she says to be polite),

but as it turns out,

Blatham is correct.
0 Replies
 
 

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